TOPIC: Anyone playing VTD please read

Dragon6483 wrote:

Josh M. wrote: It's really sad that this had to be said, and that it's such a widespread problem. Playing with new players is awesome, it lets you see the game again with new eyes. It can be easy to get overexcited sharing tokens that do cool things, but I really don't understand steamrolling enemies or refusing to play with them. And the first question that should be asked in the tavern once every adventurer has gathered is "Who hasn't done this run yet? Has anyone not solved the puzzles?"

And who cares if you take push damage? It's not like you're gonna die in real life if it kills you, and if it's that big a deal just ignore it.

Exactly. The puzzle solve status is easiest handled up front. One frustrating thing for me is people who are just super BAD at giving hints when they're requested or pushy about it. Slowly telling someone the puzzle answer is NOT a hint. Giving them info that turns the light bulb back on and keeps the thought train going is a hint. I have been on some runs with folks that flat out just explained or answered the puzzle at a very early impasse and it's exhausting. I will take push damage all day long over ruining a puzzle.

My method now is to tell the group when we go into the puzzle room that I know the answer, will be muting myself, but will give hints if asked. Then I just stay muted until they ask....pestering people about whether or not they wat a hint is irritating too.

Druegar wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I would be incredibly surprised if the DMs are ALLOWED to ever mute a player.

DMs are allowed to mute obstreperous players.

Our Bard is often obstreperous, but in a charming way.

Dragon6483 wrote:

Josh M. wrote: It's really sad that this had to be said, and that it's such a widespread problem. Playing with new players is awesome, it lets you see the game again with new eyes. It can be easy to get overexcited sharing tokens that do cool things, but I really don't understand steamrolling enemies or refusing to play with them. And the first question that should be asked in the tavern once every adventurer has gathered is "Who hasn't done this run yet? Has anyone not solved the puzzles?"

And who cares if you take push damage? It's not like you're gonna die in real life if it kills you, and if it's that big a deal just ignore it.

Exactly. The puzzle solve status is easiest handled up front. One frustrating thing for me is people who are just super BAD at giving hints when they're requested or pushy about it. Slowly telling someone the puzzle answer is NOT a hint. Giving them info that turns the light bulb back on and keeps the thought train going is a hint. I have been on some runs with folks that flat out just explained or answered the puzzle at a very early impasse and it's exhausting. I will take push damage all day long over ruining a puzzle.

My group usually all does the Dungeon at the same time for the first time so it isn't a problem. I do recall one time that a friend of a friend (of a friend I think) joined us, and in a puzzle/combat room (one where combat was possible but not the correct path) excitedly said she'd been in the room before, and immediately told us what we needed to do to solve it. And everything she told us was the opposite of what we needed to do, causing us to fail the room, and needless to say decimating our enjoyment level.

I have not been in the position where I have been able to buy out a run. It is up to the group to decide the level of play. Questions are usually asked if anyone is new to True Dungeon and what level tokens are most of their build. Pressure should not be put on players to go to a higher level.

I understand the meaning of hints to solve vs. giving the answers to puzzles. I believe in helping/hinting when asked. The goal of the party in the dungeon is like Laz says to have fun and get along. Do not spoil the fun for others.

In VTD I have always offered to loan tokens to others to help improve their builds if they so desire to use them. If someone can experience using a more powerful token that I am not using, they are more likely to work toward acquiring it (helping token sales in the process). Many players have been very appreciative and others did not need to borrow anything.

When we bring a new player to the dungeon, we usually try to equip them to be successful (Hardcore Range).
It is not fun if you are not able to hit a monster and do some damage. I have been in groups where I have asked the DM to let me go last in combat to see how things are going. My Ranger build is very steady. I run NM a lot and there have been many times where we killed the big baddie with very little time to spare.

Lastly Thank you Druegar for giving me a new word--obstreperous.

Mike Steele wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I would be incredibly surprised if the DMs are ALLOWED to ever mute a player.

DMs are allowed to mute obstreperous players.

Our Bard is often obstreperous, but in a charming way.

I think Bards are required to be obstreperous…

Dave Autzen wrote: I think Bards are required to be obstreperous…

Druegar wrote:

Dave Autzen wrote: I think Bards are required to be obstreperous…

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Ahh, another Druegar token for my collection!

Druegar wrote:

Greg (Fortunes) wrote: My personal pet peeve is players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

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I am truly gobsmacked to hear that. I've been playing TD since 2003 and I have never, ever heard of someone doing that. I'm not doubting you Greg, I'm just appalled to learn it's happened--more than once from what it sounds like.

Not quite routine to me but definitely something i see as a player in pugs I've been in over the years. in a fair amount of pugs i've been in. Especially in mixed groups where the vets are the ones who routinely play multiple times to a dungeon to the point where they know the answer in and out and from memory.

Granted i'm also a player who more than not mentally checks out in most puzzle rooms especially virtual. I look forward to and want combat (please bring back True Grind!) more than anything else in a run. I'm not great puzzle solver in virtual and in person outside of dexterity puzzles (which i do like) i'm usually the tell me what to do and i'll do it vs actively contributing type. I can see how that may come across as not being helpful or standoffish at times.

Laz is 100% correct and I'm sorry that he has to even say these things to veteran players. This is a shared group experience and if you can't handle having to consider the participation of the other human beings in the group, this probably isn't the game for you.

Nobody is playing TD so they can sit back and watch you do all the amazing things. A new player doesn't care that you know the answer or have a legendary weapon that kills the monster in one hit when both of the outcomes mean they don't get a chance to participate in the game. Go play a single player computer RPG with computer controlled NPCs if that's what you want to do.

Greg (Fortunes) wrote: ...players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

In 14 years of playing TD, I've never heard anything like this and I hope I never do.

Druegar wrote:

Greg (Fortunes) wrote: My personal pet peeve is players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

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I am truly gobsmacked to hear that. I've been playing TD since 2003 and I have never, ever heard of someone doing that. I'm not doubting you Greg, I'm just appalled to learn it's happened--more than once from what it sounds like.

Some DMs have offered to not give us push damage when they knew some people in the party had already solved it. So that is probably causing people to ask. It’s at least better than straight up giving the answer and ruining the puzzle solving experience.

I personally don’t care about taking push. It’s really not a big deal. In PUGs I will gladly take push instead of giving unwanted hints.

I remember how serious this issue was when we had actual treasure stamps - people were desperate to get the stamps and it was not uncommon for some players to spoil room solutions to make sure they got the stamp.

As an AC I remember having to talk with players about spoiling rooms or hindering the play of others. I also remember talking with players complaining about members of their party running roughshod over them after their runs. Thankfully this was pretty unusual.

I definitely understand that a DM would mute a problem player - I would think it would only last for a room, and lesson should be learned. If it happened more often, then a director (or AC in ATD) might need to get involved.

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Laz is 100% correct and I'm sorry that he has to even say these things to veteran players. This is a shared group experience and if you can't handle having to consider the participation of the other human beings in the group, this probably isn't the game for you.

Nobody is playing TD so they can sit back and watch you do all the amazing things. A new player doesn't care that you know the answer or have a legendary weapon that kills the monster in one hit when both of the outcomes mean they don't get a chance to participate in the game. Go play a single player computer RPG with computer controlled NPCs if that's what you want to do.

Greg (Fortunes) wrote: ...players in the dungeon asking can I just give you the answer to the puzzle so we don't take push damage.

In 14 years of playing TD, I've never heard anything like this and I hope I never do.

They're saying it to the DM, in an effort to (hopefully) allow new players to solve it and not take damage if they don't.