TOPIC: Melee Damage in 2020

Thanks for putting in the time.

I want to relay that I think when we start putting in tokens for just damage and severely neglect survivability we are creating unrealistic builds. Could those builds be used, sure. Will they in the future I think the tide is turning primarily if you play Nightmare and Epic. If you want to compare outputs I would suggest you also consider some defense and make sure to include your builds in your spreadsheet for transparency (I am sure you are just making sure everyone is aware).

Ed

MasterED wrote: Thanks for putting in the time.

I want to relay that I think when we start putting in tokens for just damage and severely neglect survivability we are creating unrealistic builds. Could those builds be used, sure. Will they in the future I think the tide is turning primarily if you play Nightmare and Epic. If you want to compare outputs I would suggest you also consider some defense and make sure to include your builds in your spreadsheet for transparency (I am sure you are just making sure everyone is aware).

Ed

I think you're spot-on - particularly with regard to Epic.

MasterED wrote: Thanks for putting in the time.

I want to relay that I think when we start putting in tokens for just damage and severely neglect survivability we are creating unrealistic builds. Could those builds be used, sure. Will they in the future I think the tide is turning primarily if you play Nightmare and Epic. If you want to compare outputs I would suggest you also consider some defense and make sure to include your builds in your spreadsheet for transparency (I am sure you are just making sure everyone is aware).

Ed

I would argue that defense (at least in the form of AC) is one of the few areas where you can skimp. That said, we certainly shouldn't be skipping TEs (I don't think anyone is leaving their CoA or nuggets at home for +1 damage) and there should really probably be a minimum hit point level.

I'm going to give that druid a shot for 2020... will post again in a few minutes.

Ah, this is why I don't usually mess with tokens until they are in character builders. I almost certainly calculated something wrong, somewhere, but this should be a good launching point for a build that really tries to hit the best in each slot in a way that makes sense, even if it means I'm short 3 or 4 melee damage when poly'd.

STR: 38
DEX: 23
CON: 16
INT: 16
WIS: 19
CHA: 20

Melee:
Hit: 20 Damage: 29 AC: 17

Polymorph Melee:
Hit: 20 Damage: 43 AC: 17

Range:
Hit: 12 Damage: 27 AC: 18 Missle AC: 0

Spell:
Damage: 27 Heal: 24 Resist: 0

Saves:
Reflex: 23 Fort: 23 Will: 24

Treasure:
Min: 19 Max: 21

Health: 51

Damage Reduction:

Melee	Range	Spell	Fire	Cold	Shock	Sonic	Eldritch	Poison	Darkrift	Sacred
0	0	0	10	10	10	10	0	2	10	0

Melee Mainhand: Drue’s +5 Baton of Focus
Melee Offhand: Orb of Might
Ranged Mainhand: Thor's +5 Returning Hammer
Ranged Offhand: Lucky Shield
Head: Crown of Might
Eyes: Lenses of Divine Sight
Left Ear: Earcuff of Orbits
Right Ear: Arcane Earcuff
Neck: Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace
Bead: Bead of the Lucky Traveler
Torso: Aron's Sunhide Robe
Wrist: Charm Bracelets
Hands: Gloves of the Brute
Back 1: Pharacus’ Greater Cloak of Destiny
Back 2: Greater Cloak of Destiny
Ring 1: Supreme Ring of Elemental Command
Ring 2: Relsa's Ring of Supreme Focus
Ring 3: Drake's Ring
Waist: Surtr’s Girdle of Fire Giant Strength
Shirt: Shirt of Focus
Legs: Kilt of Dungeonbane - Strength
Shins: Venomguard Greaves
Boots: Boots of the Four Winds
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Raven
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Owl
Charm: Charm of Avarice
Charm: Charm of Awakened Synergy
Charm: Draco-Lich Claw Charm
Charm: Greater Onyx Charm
Charm: Charm of Brooching
Charm: Charm of Glory
Charm: Fiendish Charm
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Silver Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Gold Nugget
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Infernal Fire Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Banshee Prisim
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Onyx Cube
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Garnet Cube
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Slotless: Greater Mistletoe
Slotless: Rod of Seven Parts
Slotless: Gregor’s Tome of Focus
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base

Iirc, Relsa's doesnt hit polymorph damage.
Maybe ring of the eel? I know it gives up a lot, but it does give +3 melee damage.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Iirc, Relsa's doesnt hit polymorph damage.
Maybe ring of the eel? I know it gives up a lot, but it does give +3 melee damage.

No Relsa's doesn't give poly damage, even though its a Focus Item (see the other thread on that discussion).

In any case, I would say +5 focus for both damage spells and heals is a better slot investment than 3 melee damage. A ring of Spell storing is an interesting damage option instead of the Ring of the Drake as well - what are the chances the Ring of the Drake would total more damage over a dungeon than a second Call Lightning in a single round generating another 44 to 47 damage?

That depends on how one uses their actions.

Typically assume 3 or 4 rounds of combat, so 3 damage x 3.5 rounds x 3 combats is 31.5 damage.

Also, RoSS is a free action.

Were many combats hitting 3 rounds this year? I think all of my combats at GenCon ended in round 2 outside of room 7?

Wade Schwendemann wrote: That depends on how one uses their actions.

Typically assume 3 or 4 rounds of combat, so 3 damage x 3.5 rounds x 3 combats is 31.5 damage.

Also, RoSS is a free action.

Yep, I presume you would use RoSS to use Call Lightning, Spell Surge, and Call Lightning again in one round of combat. Assuming passed skill checks, that's 114 damage that round, 47 from the RoSS. Drakes Ring per your number of combats would generate 21 damage, presuming all hits, and ring of the eel generates 31.5 damage.

So really its 47 vs 52.5 after some considering using Relsa's and RoSS vs Ring of the Eel and Ring of the Drake.

If you cast one extra damage spell or do a little healing, I think Relsa's and RoSS is probably the right answer.

Replace Relsa's with RoSS and Replace SRoEC with Ring of the Eel. Ring of the Eel adds 20 damage over SRoEC in this equation.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Replace Relsa's with RoSS and Replace SRoEC with Ring of the Eel. Ring of the Eel adds 20 damage over SRoEC in this equation.

How many times does the character in question get hit to trigger the 3 retribution damage?

Also, is 20 melee damage worth the 10 elemental resist, +2 healing, and +1 damage?

Counting the Drake Ring and Arcane Belt from Next year gets us to +31 spell damage

Free Firebolt for 42/44 via Arcane Set
Spell Surge Call Lightning for 65/71
Call Lightning for 48/51
Call Lightning from Crown of Expertise for 48/51
Call Lightning from Ring of Spell Storing for 48/51
Firebolt for 42/44
Firebolt for 42/44
Firebolt for 42/44 from Charm of Spell Swapping
Freezing Orb for 39/42
Freezing Orb for 39/42

455/485


spell druid

STR: 14
DEX: 29
CON: 16
INT: 16
WIS: 19
CHA: 20

Melee:
Hit: 7 Damage: 9 AC: 22

Range:
Hit: 10 Damage: 12 AC: 22 Missle AC: 0

Spell:
Damage: 33 Heal: 27 Resist: 0

Saves:
Reflex: 19 Fort: 16 Will: 17

Treasure:
Min: 3 Max: 3

Health: 42

Damage Reduction:

Melee	Range	Spell	Fire	Cold	Shock	Sonic	Eldritch	Poison	Darkrift	Sacred
0	0	0	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0

Melee Mainhand: Drue’s +5 Baton of Focus
Melee Offhand: Shield of the Scholar
Ranged Mainhand: +1 Mighty Sling
Ranged Offhand: Shield of the Scholar
Head: Crown of Expertise
Eyes: Lenses of Focus
Left Ear: Earcuff of Inspiration
Right Ear: 2020 Arcane Earcuff
Neck: Hand of Glory
Bead: Bead of the Lucky Traveler
Torso: Aron’s Sunhide Robe
Wrist: Arcane 2020
Hands: Blessed Tempest Gloves
Back: Pharacus’ Greater Cloak of Destiny
Ring: Relsa’s Ring of Supreme Focus
Ring: Ring of Greater Focus
Ring: Ring of Spell Storing
Waist: 2020 Focus Belt
Shirt: Shirt of Focus
Legs: Kilt of Dungeonbane - Dexterity
Shins: Flameguard Greaves
Boots: Boots of the Four Winds
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Cat
Charm: Charm of Awakened Synergy
Charm: Charm of Spell Swapping
Ioun Stone: EmptySlotless: Greater Mistletoe
Slotless: Gregor’s Tome of Focus
Slotless: Rod of Seven Parts
Runestone: Empty