TOPIC: XP for sale on Ebay??

Lodestone (KH) wrote: I thought they stopped doing the entry at the epilogue because the wifi/tech was breaking too much and/or it was just to slow for players to enter their information (basically in the 12-minute window until the next team). The current system is far easier to administrate.

The easiest thing would be to do as Ed suggested and clearly mark them Not For Resale. Maybe Not Transferrable also. Bury some legal script in those forms signed at the beginning that you agree not to resell the XP from the run. Anyone caught doing so can then be legally pursued and it isn't just some morally objectionable thing.

Everything else proposed either sounds like it would slow down the epilogue or create a bunch of ridiculous hoops to jump through.

This addresses (to some extent) the Title question of XP being sold on EBay... And though many are not concerned by the loophole for people who would violate the trust of the honor system... there is still a valid question about the folks who would claim nightmare when they in fact played on normal... or those who got killed before R7 who would claim making it to R7 for the XP...

Personally I can see both sides, and furthermore the headache of trying to "police" the folks with low integrity is anything but trivial...

But perhaps a middle ground as has already been suggested... such as a scan code at the check out to indicate level, followed by a scan for each xp card that at least locks in the level... I guess they can then lie about how far they got, but now there's a kind of cap on how far their lie will get them....

(I REALLY REALLY hope there is not more than a tiny handful who would abuse the trust/honor system this way... )

I am one of those who cares about my XP - I always enter it the night of the event when I get back to my hotel room.

I get everyone here cares about their own xp...me too, for tracking my events. But do you care about someone else's. This is not in regard to selling xp on ebay, which of agree is wrong in varying degrees. But do care that the honor dystem lets someone enter nightmare/hardcore when they played normal? Do you care enough to go back to long lines at the epilogue room?

jedibcg wrote: I get everyone here cares about their own xp...me too, for tracking my events. But do you care about someone else's. This is not in regard to selling xp on ebay, which of agree is wrong in varying degrees. But do care that the honor dystem lets someone enter nightmare/hardcore when they played normal? Do you care enough to go back to long lines at the epilogue room?

Care - Yes
Care Enough - No

I'm betting some of the longer term players like to see their name on the "Top Players" list and its good to know that no amount of "cheating" will let someone hit or move up that list as long as players keep playing, because the max you can get per year is 4000. Having said that, I'm sure we all like to help maintain the integrity of the system, but in the scheme of things, no, it's not important enough to go back to long lines in the epilogue room or spend an inordinate amount of time developing a complicated, but mostly unnecessary process. We have more important things to address.

jedibcg wrote: I get everyone here cares about their own xp...me too, for tracking my events. But do you care about someone else's. This is not in regard to selling xp on ebay, which of agree is wrong in varying degrees. But do care that the honor dystem lets someone enter nightmare/hardcore when they played normal? Do you care enough to go back to long lines at the epilogue room?

That question is fair, and I'm betting the answers are a full spectrum of everything in between "care enough" & "don't care enough". The real question (maybe) is would this ever be a substantive impact to newer players in terms of their enjoyment of TD, and in terms of their overall impression (i.e. does it matter enough that the possibility of people being dishonest about XP detract enough from their enjoyment that they might play less or stop playing...).
I'm betting the overall impact is low... Especially with respect to the effort required to control it...
Time and data may prove me wrong, but until then this is just a guess anyways...

Aaron Hydrick wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I get everyone here cares about their own xp...me too, for tracking my events. But do you care about someone else's. This is not in regard to selling xp on ebay, which of agree is wrong in varying degrees. But do care that the honor dystem lets someone enter nightmare/hardcore when they played normal? Do you care enough to go back to long lines at the epilogue room?

That question is fair, and I'm betting the answers are a full spectrum of everything in between "care enough" & "don't care enough". The real question (maybe) is would this ever be a substantive impact to newer players in terms of their enjoyment of TD, and in terms of their overall impression (i.e. does it matter enough that the possibility of people being dishonest about XP detract enough from their enjoyment that they might play less or stop playing...).
I'm betting the overall impact is low... Especially with respect to the effort required to control it...
Time and data may prove me wrong, but until then this is just a guess anyways...

Very valid. If it does detract from people playing something should be done.

Dave wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I get everyone here cares about their own xp...me too, for tracking my events. But do you care about someone else's. This is not in regard to selling xp on ebay, which of agree is wrong in varying degrees. But do care that the honor dystem lets someone enter nightmare/hardcore when they played normal? Do you care enough to go back to long lines at the epilogue room?

Care - Yes
Care Enough - No

I'm betting some of the longer term players like to see their name on the "Top Players" list and its good to know that no amount of "cheating" will let someone hit or move up that list as long as players keep playing, because the max you can get per year is 4000. Having said that, I'm sure we all like to help maintain the integrity of the system, but in the scheme of things, no, it's not important enough to go back to long lines in the epilogue room or spend an inordinate amount of time developing a complicated, but mostly unnecessary process. We have more important things to address.

Also bear in mind that when it comes to some of the "Top Players" they reach the point where they only "Care Enough" in terms of the number of people ahead of them.

So if you are #100, you are mainly concerned about the 99 people ahead of you, and are less concerned about everyone with less XP than you - unless they unfairly gain extra XP to pass you. But if you are earning the max XP each year, it becomes less relevant what everyone else below you is doing.

jedibcg wrote:

Aaron Hydrick wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I get everyone here cares about their own xp...me too, for tracking my events. But do you care about someone else's. This is not in regard to selling xp on ebay, which of agree is wrong in varying degrees. But do care that the honor dystem lets someone enter nightmare/hardcore when they played normal? Do you care enough to go back to long lines at the epilogue room?

That question is fair, and I'm betting the answers are a full spectrum of everything in between "care enough" & "don't care enough". The real question (maybe) is would this ever be a substantive impact to newer players in terms of their enjoyment of TD, and in terms of their overall impression (i.e. does it matter enough that the possibility of people being dishonest about XP detract enough from their enjoyment that they might play less or stop playing...).
I'm betting the overall impact is low... Especially with respect to the effort required to control it...
Time and data may prove me wrong, but until then this is just a guess anyways...

Very valid. If it does detract from people playing something should be done.

I agree the integrity of True Dungeon is critical, and it can affect retention. It can be cumulative also, little things can add up. If someone sees people cheating on XP or selling it, using loot tokens they don't own and maybe don't even physically have with them, using proxy tokens that may or may not be against the rules, some people maybe practicing with pucks outside of GENCON, etc, that could possibly leave an impression any owner of a Brand/Product doesn't want.

And as I alluded to above, we should be careful not to create solutions to problems that don't actually exist.

One person tried to sell one card and it failed to get any bids. If there was a thriving TD exp black market, I'd understand tightening things dramatically. As someone dabbling in cyber security as a profession, I entirely respect the desire to preempt that and have something in place before it becomes a problem.

But adding threats of legal penalties to the cards isn't going to stop unscrupulous players from trading in them (even if it drives such sales to less populated venues). It becomes a question of what time, money, and other resources TD is willing to put into the matter.

Contrast it against something like counterfeit tokens. That's a thriving secondary market that they have a vested interest in protecting. One guy selling one card doesn't seem like a reason to leap to change things up.

Don't get me wrong, I respect the dedicated long term players and the allure of a leaderboard slot. Having a simple "not for resale, not transferable" caveat would probably suffice for most cases. But does anyone really think TD needs a Law Department to fire off C&D or lawsuits because someone decided to try to recoup some of the cost of their ticket? Is one sale worthy of fully changing up how the system works to the detriment of thousands of players? 1 attempted sale (so far) out of, what, 8,000 or so? Seems like a disproportionate response.

bpsymington wrote: I am one of those who cares about my XP - I always enter it the night of the event when I get back to my hotel room.

It was fun last year when I entered the XP at GENCON and was #1 on the Top Players list for a bit.

bpsymington wrote: I am one of those who cares about my XP - I always enter it the night of the event when I get back to my hotel room.

Me, too.

Forar wrote: Don't get me wrong, I respect the dedicated long term players and the allure of a leaderboard slot. Having a simple "not for resale, not transferable" caveat would probably suffice for most cases. But does anyone really think TD needs a Law Department to fire off C&D or lawsuits because someone decided to try to recoup some of the cost of their ticket? Is one sale worthy of fully changing up how the system works to the detriment of thousands of players? 1 attempted sale (so far) out of, what, 8,000 or so? Seems like a disproportionate response.

Legal would only be needed if it did become a problem. And putting the verbiage on the cards now would head off the defense of 'You didn't say I couldn't' later.