TOPIC: It's time to eliminate the 3rd level player bonus

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Druegar wrote:

edwin wrote: Possibly 2hr 30 minutes in duration.

As much as we would like that, it's not going to happen for reasons I can't go into.

I will.

GC takes a percentage of the ticket price based on event duration. I'm sure other cons do as well.

This is why, when we ran charity event, we listed it for 2 hours despite it generally lasting 5 to 6. That way the charity got more of the ticket price.

That's irksome given that depending on how long room 7 takes epilogue might take place well after the event it "over". Adding the feedback session this year didn't help matters either.

Guedoji wrote:

edwin wrote: Status quo then seems to be the best that can be done.

I have yet to see a good reason for not making the rules be forum coordination 1st, then pre-gen, being on time, then roll off. We could then get rid of the 3rd lvl bonus, start to get more forum users, more activity, save time in the coaching room. Expectations would be set for. the beginning, if people didnt read, it's their own fault. I have not heard a legit down side to this.

Maybe because you didn't read...lol.

Brokkr wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Guedoji wrote: The rules should state clearly and it should be stated on the event description at time of ticketing that all players are recommended to log in to the forum, work with others to coordinate their desired classes.

Then...

Players who coordinated get first pick (assuming they agreed). This would possibly give folks a chance to change runs if the group doesn't work out.

If it was not worked out between players on the forum...

Player who has class prebuilt with app gets first pick. (We should be promoting players for helping to save time).

This all assumes that player are on time.

If all else fails, roll off.

Worrying about being able to play my class has been a huge stresser for me. I mentioned previously that I haven't invoked the rule of 3, typically because my mom taught me to be kind and to share my toys... however... I drop a ton of money into TD and I would like a way to be sure I can use my tokens as many of them simply cant be used if I run another class. It makes me hesitate to buy more when I worry about this.

One other stress triggering moment in this thread. It was mentioned that some vets are running 15 runs? Maybe that was an exaggeration, but why are folks able to re-run a dungeon more than once or twice?

It is extremely difficult to coordinate the three runs for myself, my wife and a friend or two and this is likely a much bigger issue for new players. If they cant even get tickets how can we expect to grow the community. I'm often trying to bring new players to TD, but I've had plenty of times where I had to turn potential new players away because I simply cant coordinate more tickets. It's a little bothersome that folks are running that many runs when I'm telling friends I wasnt able to get them into 1 run with me.

I think giving first picks to people that used the App or that coordinated on the forums are both problematic, as they favor veterans over new players.

I have a hard time seeing how having people use an App or join the forums is problematic. Tickets go on sale months before the event which is plenty of time to make arrangements. Not reading the email or an unwillingness to create an account is squarely on the participant and shouldn't penalize those who have made an effort to do so.

On the contrary - purchase of the app, online communication (forum or otherwise) is not required, and forcing someone to give an email address or join a forum board for a game they’re already paying $80-plus to play, is the definition of problematic. I get that it seems fair to reward people for planning ahead. And there already is an in-game perk for people who use the app. But anything to do with class selection should not ever begin to resolve prior to ticketed event start time. If that changes, it will have a direct and likely negative impact on the game, and in the arena that most need to stay positive, new players.

Just opinion - of course. If you disagree, you disagree. Cheers, and game on!

Brokkr wrote: No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

Requiring a person to get a Forum account, just to ensure they get a fair shot at character class picks - Not remotely cool. Jeff would need to make Forum memberships a requirement. And I can speculate, but I’d be shocked if he did. That’s like putting a barrier in front of an already expensive entertainment price - equates to dissuading new customers. Fail to make it a posted requirement, and have new folks show up to be shocked by the fact that all but two or three coordinated online and they’re stuck with whatever, at best they are not going to have the best possible experience. Oh and have you read the PHB...? (Yes I know - comical to throw that reference into a discussion where we’re stating and re-stating how unlikely people are to go any extra distance... BUUUT... IF they did, they’d start with the TD website... and in resources, they’re going to find the player handbook, which states that class selection begins in the coaching room.

Trying to have class selection happen prior to event start, unless you’re talking about a group that already games together and buys out the whole run, is a disaster waiting to happen.

Again - just an opinion.

edwin wrote:

Brokkr wrote: No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

Reminds me of an rpg I signed up for at GenCon. I showed up and GM expected me to have a character in an online application. GM said email was sent out. What email since I expected event lisrings to define everything I need to do. No cost either. Delayed the game for 15 minutes for everybody. That would be an issue for TD since they have a schedule to maintain.

THIS!

Druegar wrote:

Guedoji wrote: Change the event listing, modify the description to include a blurb about rules, registering on the site for xp and class selection.

Alas, we have hard evidence people don't read the event descriptions. We could say, "If you show up, we will literally kill you--not your character, YOU!" and hundreds of people would still show up and have the nerve to look surprised when we offed them.

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For the sarcasm-impaired: True Dungeon has no intention of killing any of its players.

Also THIS!!!

I've read every line.

jedibcg wrote:

Guedoji wrote:

edwin wrote: Status quo then seems to be the best that can be done.

I have yet to see a good reason for not making the rules be forum coordination 1st, then pre-gen, being on time, then roll off. We could then get rid of the 3rd lvl bonus, start to get more forum users, more activity, save time in the coaching room. Expectations would be set for. the beginning, if people didnt read, it's their own fault. I have not heard a legit down side to this.

Maybe because you didn't read...lol.

This is an unproven speculation.

I would argue that having people goto a website and getting an account is really cool, it shows this is more than a onetime excape-room at face value. This sets expectations up front, it would show new people that this game has a community and replayability, it's a serious planned event and I think this method would likely help retain more people.

This seems like a logical evolution to TD and i think it should be seriously considered.

Grekel! wrote:

Brokkr wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Guedoji wrote: The rules should state clearly and it should be stated on the event description at time of ticketing that all players are recommended to log in to the forum, work with others to coordinate their desired classes.

Then...

Players who coordinated get first pick (assuming they agreed). This would possibly give folks a chance to change runs if the group doesn't work out.

If it was not worked out between players on the forum...

Player who has class prebuilt with app gets first pick. (We should be promoting players for helping to save time).

This all assumes that player are on time.

If all else fails, roll off.

Worrying about being able to play my class has been a huge stresser for me. I mentioned previously that I haven't invoked the rule of 3, typically because my mom taught me to be kind and to share my toys... however... I drop a ton of money into TD and I would like a way to be sure I can use my tokens as many of them simply cant be used if I run another class. It makes me hesitate to buy more when I worry about this.

One other stress triggering moment in this thread. It was mentioned that some vets are running 15 runs? Maybe that was an exaggeration, but why are folks able to re-run a dungeon more than once or twice?

It is extremely difficult to coordinate the three runs for myself, my wife and a friend or two and this is likely a much bigger issue for new players. If they cant even get tickets how can we expect to grow the community. I'm often trying to bring new players to TD, but I've had plenty of times where I had to turn potential new players away because I simply cant coordinate more tickets. It's a little bothersome that folks are running that many runs when I'm telling friends I wasnt able to get them into 1 run with me.

I think giving first picks to people that used the App or that coordinated on the forums are both problematic, as they favor veterans over new players.

I have a hard time seeing how having people use an App or join the forums is problematic. Tickets go on sale months before the event which is plenty of time to make arrangements. Not reading the email or an unwillingness to create an account is squarely on the participant and shouldn't penalize those who have made an effort to do so.

On the contrary - purchase of the app, online communication (forum or otherwise) is not required, and forcing someone to give an email address or join a forum board for a game they’re already paying $80-plus to play, is the definition of problematic. I get that it seems fair to reward people for planning ahead. And there already is an in-game perk for people who use the app. But anything to do with class selection should not ever begin to resolve prior to ticketed event start time. If that changes, it will have a direct and likely negative impact on the game, and in the arena that most need to stay positive, new players.

Just opinion - of course. If you disagree, you disagree. Cheers, and game on!

Grekel! wrote:

Brokkr wrote: No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

Requiring a person to get a Forum account, just to ensure they get a fair shot at character class picks - Not remotely cool. Jeff would need to make Forum memberships a requirement. And I can speculate, but I’d be shocked if he did. That’s like putting a barrier in front of an already expensive entertainment price - equates to dissuading new customers. Fail to make it a posted requirement, and have new folks show up to be shocked by the fact that all but two or three coordinated online and they’re stuck with whatever, at best they are not going to have the best possible experience. Oh and have you read the PHB...? (Yes I know - comical to throw that reference into a discussion where we’re stating and re-stating how unlikely people are to go any extra distance... BUUUT... IF they did, they’d start with the TD website... and in resources, they’re going to find the player handbook, which states that class selection begins in the coaching room.

Trying to have class selection happen prior to event start, unless you’re talking about a group that already games together and buys out the whole run, is a disaster waiting to happen.

Again - just an opinion.

They still are not required to sign up for the forums. If they player chooses to show up at start time with conferring with the rest of the people in the time slot that is their prerogative.

In addition, not requiring people to sign up on the forum is a HUGE marketing miss for TD. Gencon is getting all the exposure here, directing folks to the forums solidifys your user base and is just good business sence. This scenario is a perfect use to drive people to the site and the forums bringing them into the community.

edwin wrote:

Harlax wrote:

edwin wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote:

edwin wrote:

Brokkr wrote: No experience is required to create a forum account or use the app. The player is still free to show up with out doing either.

Reminds me of an rpg I signed up for at GenCon. I showed up and GM expected me to have a character in an online application. GM said email was sent out. What email since I expected event lisrings to define everything I need to do. No cost either. Delayed the game for 15 minutes for everybody. That would be an issue for TD since they have a schedule to maintain.

This is why the coaching room is 24 mins already.

12 minutes to select and ready characters and 12 minutes to record on party card.

1. That is not what the Coaches Guide says. It gives us two minutes for the preliminaries and the rest of the time for filling out the party card.

2. If you wait 12 minutes to start filling our the party card, you are not going to finish on time. Unless you are Laz...

Seems like a need to add time before preliminaries to settle on classes and get tokens ready. Start events sooner and have a longer duration to account for this and the feedback session following room 7. Possibly 2hr 30 minutes in duration.

This is precisely why we invite people to show up half an hour before the rain starts. Some of the rules being changed to have character classes chosen at the exact time the run start eliminates all that preparation time

Guedoji wrote: In addition, not requiring people to sign up on the forum is a HUGE marketing miss for TD. Gencon is getting all the exposure here, directing folks to the forums solidifys your user base and is just good business sence. This scenario is a perfect use to drive people to the site and the forums bringing them into the community.

So signing up on the forums for classes is a first come first pick then? What if two different threads gets started? Are we requiring someone to be active on the forums so they can continue to be aware of choices of character selections made after they put their initial dibs on a character?