TOPIC: 2019 polymorph item errata (it's a good thing)

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Arnold wrote: There's no teal in this post

Are you opposed to that change...?

Nope. Not opposed to the change. Just bummed that the tokens went out with the incorrect phrasing.

I assume Druegar will be hanging out at GenCon with a sharpie for us?

Please use a fine Micron fine liner, can get those down to 0.3 mm

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Arnold wrote: I don't think you should be able to change and attack. Then on the next turn change back and cast. Then on the third turn change back into elemental and attack.

Kind of defeats the purpose of (w/ spells) on Iktomi's.

I'll be sure to discuss that with the folks who matter. Thanks for the tip.

It doesn't completely defeat the purpose of the Legendary having "with spells". Since you can cast the spell while still an Elemental, you still get the Elemental damage resistance the turn you're casting a spell. If you have the Relic and un-polymorph to cast the spell, you lose the Elemental damage resistance for the turn. Which is pretty substantial.

This may be the sleaze you were looking for, but if changing is instantaneous, one could change from elemental to human, cast, then change back to elemental and maintain resistance through the monster turn.

Do that again next round as you see fit.

Another question, can you remain an elemental fron room to room?

Ie, can I change in room 6, then start room 7 in elemental form in case the party loses initiative?

Maybe limit it to one polymorph / unpolymorph per turn?

I am imagining this all in 1 turn:



Credit

*Edit: Thinking about it more, it could be advantageous to turn into a frost elemental when attacking a fire creature (to do extra damage or not have damage reduced) and swap to a fire elemental before the enemy turn (to reduce incoming damage). It should probably not be allowed in my opinion.

Philip Goodman wrote: I am imagining this all in 1 turn:

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Credit

*Edit: Thinking about it more, it could be advantageous to turn into a frost elemental when attacking a fire creature (to do extra damage or not have damage reduced) and swap to a fire elemental before the enemy turn (to reduce incoming damage). It should probably not be allowed in my opinion.

Awesome meme and excellent point. 100 points to house Goodman.

Mike Steele wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Arnold wrote: I don't think you should be able to change and attack. Then on the next turn change back and cast. Then on the third turn change back into elemental and attack.

Kind of defeats the purpose of (w/ spells) on Iktomi's.

I'll be sure to discuss that with the folks who matter. Thanks for the tip.

It doesn't completely defeat the purpose of the Legendary having "with spells". Since you can cast the spell while still an Elemental, you still get the Elemental damage resistance the turn you're casting a spell. If you have the Relic and un-polymorph to cast the spell, you lose the Elemental damage resistance for the turn. Which is pretty substantial.

Not inconsequential, no. Still would be nice to the extra differentiation between relic and legendary.

Oi, something that seems to be forgotten: the details of the new druid item did specify that you had to choose ONE elemental form per room. So, no switching between fire and water. But the items didnt specify that you could only polymorph 1/room, so that is still a valid question.

Whatever is decided, i just ask that the relic not get nerfed for the sole purpose of making the legendary a bigger upgrade. If the relic is good how it is but the legendary is barely better, then give the legendary a small boost...most of the effect text isnt on the token anyway.

Edit: for the record, i dont consider casting while polymorph to be that great, usually if you are casting in a room you arent polymorphed. It is mostly useful in grind where combat takes longer and you might need to stop attacking for a round to cast a heal

Wade Schwendemann wrote: can you remain an elemental from room to room?

No, but you could switch at the beginning of the next room. (might be cost-prohibitive at the UR level)

kurtreznor wrote: Oi, something that seems to be forgotten: the details of the new druid item did specify that you had to choose ONE elemental form per room. So, no switching between fire and water. But the items didnt specify that you could only polymorph 1/room, so that is still a valid question.

Whatever is decided, i just ask that the relic not get nerfed for the sole purpose of making the legendary a bigger upgrade. If the relic is good how it is but the legendary is barely better, then give the legendary a small boost...most of the effect text isnt on the token anyway.

Edit: for the record, i dont consider casting while polymorph to be that great, usually if you are casting in a room you arent polymorphed. It is mostly useful in grind where combat takes longer and you might need to stop attacking for a round to cast a heal

I could understand this stance, but then there isn't really much point for anyone to upgrade to legendary.

1. +1.5 avg damage on the wheel
2. +resistance when casting
3. keep potions.

That's underwhelming for 40k gold and tons of Trade Goods. #3 is the only one that feels really neat.

I'd assumed since spell-casting was specifically spelled out on the Legendary, that it should be unique to the legendary. Instantaneous back and forth kind of detracts from that, IMO.

Arnold wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Oi, something that seems to be forgotten: the details of the new druid item did specify that you had to choose ONE elemental form per room. So, no switching between fire and water. But the items didnt specify that you could only polymorph 1/room, so that is still a valid question.

Whatever is decided, i just ask that the relic not get nerfed for the sole purpose of making the legendary a bigger upgrade. If the relic is good how it is but the legendary is barely better, then give the legendary a small boost...most of the effect text isnt on the token anyway.

Edit: for the record, i dont consider casting while polymorph to be that great, usually if you are casting in a room you arent polymorphed. It is mostly useful in grind where combat takes longer and you might need to stop attacking for a round to cast a heal

I could understand this stance, but then there isn't really much point for anyone to upgrade to legendary.

1. +1.5 avg damage on the wheel
2. +resistance when casting
3. keep potions.

That's underwhelming for 40k gold and tons of Trade Goods. #3 is the only one that feels really neat.

I'd assumed since spell-casting was specifically spelled out on the Legendary, that it should be unique to the legendary. Instantaneous back and forth kind of detracts from that, IMO.

I agree with everything you are saying here. What i dont want to happen is for the relic to be perfect as is (even with instant transform), but then get nerfed anyway, because it has to be noticably weaker than the legendary. If the relic power level is good as it stands, but the legendary isnt worth the upgrade, then give the legendary more; dont take away from the relic.

Arnold wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Oi, something that seems to be forgotten: the details of the new druid item did specify that you had to choose ONE elemental form per room. So, no switching between fire and water. But the items didnt specify that you could only polymorph 1/room, so that is still a valid question.

Whatever is decided, i just ask that the relic not get nerfed for the sole purpose of making the legendary a bigger upgrade. If the relic is good how it is but the legendary is barely better, then give the legendary a small boost...most of the effect text isnt on the token anyway.

Edit: for the record, i dont consider casting while polymorph to be that great, usually if you are casting in a room you arent polymorphed. It is mostly useful in grind where combat takes longer and you might need to stop attacking for a round to cast a heal

I could understand this stance, but then there isn't really much point for anyone to upgrade to legendary.

1. +1.5 avg damage on the wheel
2. +resistance when casting
3. keep potions.

That's underwhelming for 40k gold and tons of Trade Goods. #3 is the only one that feels really neat.

I'd assumed since spell-casting was specifically spelled out on the Legendary, that it should be unique to the legendary. Instantaneous back and forth kind of detracts from that, IMO.

Legendaries are almost never a good “value.” They are for people who want the absolute best equipment.

Legendary AC items gave +2 ac (or even +1!), Legendary weapons often give +2 to hit and damage.

Viewed in this context +1.5 damage, 5 dr from the elemental type of your choice, and the ability to not expend consumables makes this a quite large relic to legendary bump.

Consider it this way: this lets you use Potion Polymorph Brownie for free - giving you +1 to save and +3 to ac - much better than any relic to legendary ac bump.

kurtreznor wrote:

Arnold wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: Oi, something that seems to be forgotten: the details of the new druid item did specify that you had to choose ONE elemental form per room. So, no switching between fire and water. But the items didnt specify that you could only polymorph 1/room, so that is still a valid question.

Whatever is decided, i just ask that the relic not get nerfed for the sole purpose of making the legendary a bigger upgrade. If the relic is good how it is but the legendary is barely better, then give the legendary a small boost...most of the effect text isnt on the token anyway.

Edit: for the record, i dont consider casting while polymorph to be that great, usually if you are casting in a room you arent polymorphed. It is mostly useful in grind where combat takes longer and you might need to stop attacking for a round to cast a heal

I could understand this stance, but then there isn't really much point for anyone to upgrade to legendary.

1. +1.5 avg damage on the wheel
2. +resistance when casting
3. keep potions.

That's underwhelming for 40k gold and tons of Trade Goods. #3 is the only one that feels really neat.

I'd assumed since spell-casting was specifically spelled out on the Legendary, that it should be unique to the legendary. Instantaneous back and forth kind of detracts from that, IMO.

I agree with everything you are saying here. What i dont want to happen is for the relic to be perfect as is (even with instant transform), but then get nerfed anyway, because it has to be noticably weaker than the legendary. If the relic power level is good as it stands, but the legendary isnt worth the upgrade, then give the legendary more; dont take away from the relic.

That makes sense. If this is how it was always supposed to work, then that's fine.

Let's just make sure that the legendary doesn't feel "meh". That'd be really disappointing as a goal to work towards.

kurtreznor wrote: Oi, something that seems to be forgotten: the details of the new druid item did specify that you had to choose ONE elemental form per room. So, no switching between fire and water. But the items didnt specify that you could only polymorph 1/room, so that is still a valid question.

Whatever is decided, i just ask that the relic not get nerfed for the sole purpose of making the legendary a bigger upgrade. If the relic is good how it is but the legendary is barely better, then give the legendary a small boost...most of the effect text isnt on the token anyway.

Edit: for the record, i dont consider casting while polymorph to be that great, usually if you are casting in a room you arent polymorphed. It is mostly useful in grind where combat takes longer and you might need to stop attacking for a round to cast a heal

Great catch - I agree with you that I'd prefer the Relic not be nerfed for this issue. The Legendary has plenty of advantages over the Relic even without the "with spells" part. Just the ability to use other polymorph tokens as non-consumables is pretty incredible.