TOPIC: +5 Final Transmute Recipes

Kakitahan wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I’d like to see Aragonite dropped from the Whetstone recipe. If not, then the Bismuth.

Aragonite is easier to get for the same amount of packs opened (1/4 chance for an ingredient vs 1/5 for EB).

I think the key is both the T4 this year are really good transmutes. They give a bonus treasure and increase your power of your Rare weapon to near a UR. They are more expensive because they are more powerful. Dial back the power and decrease the costs.

Ed

Agreed.

They both come with serious limitations.

I wouldn’t be surprised if bits go over $12 pretty quickly. Some retailers are already offering $7-8 wholesale, so you know they’ll be marking them up. CoTB is going to cost about 1/2 a PYP to make. For the cost of two, just get the Nugget for the same amount of treasure, and it’ll stack forever with as many URTEs as you want.

And it depends on what you mean by “near UR.” No rare this year gets half as good as any of this year’s URs by just adding +1/+1, so changing the Oil to Aragonite just seems like a bridge too far.

Charm of Health was way underpriced on purpose. Fortunately, Planks are super cheap right now. You might not have any, but a lot of people do. You should be able to drive a pretty hard bargain on them.

Planks should be about $1 to $1.50 apiece.

Max $2

At least right now.

Brad Mortensen wrote: And it depends on what you mean by “near UR.” No rare this year gets half as good as any of this year’s URs by just adding +1/+1, so changing the Oil to Aragonite just seems like a bridge too far.

A couple of Rare examples for 2019...


+1 Nether Dire Flail (2H Melee) - average damage 6.7 + Whetsone equals a +1 to hit and 7.7 average damage
+1 Nether Flail (1H Melee) - average damage 5.4 + Whetsone equals a +1 to hit and 6.4 average damage
+1 Nether Short Spear (1H Melee Most Classes) - average damage 4.5 + Whetsone equals a +1 to hit and 5.5 average damage


Top UR damage weapons
2 H Melee - Martial Classes - 10 (only 1) - this year Death Flail 8.0
1 H Melee - Martial Classes - 7.5
1 H Melee - Non-Martial Classes - 6.5

By what I see, in most cases the Enchanter's Whetstone gets a player half way between the damage of a Rare and UR (excluding the 2H Melee with the OP Deathcleaver). It also gives the player a +1 to hit making the weapons +2 which is identical to a UR.

I already posted I felt the recipe was too expensive. I suggested 1 Aragonite and 6 Steel but I could live with anything that puts it about 50% the way to an UR (like the token provides).

Ed

Chris Heuer wrote:
Figurine of Power: Dog (***) Heal another character 4hp 1/game

• 100 GP Jade Sculpture or 100 GP Malachite Sculpture
• 4× Darkwood Plank
  plus ONLY ONE of the following:
• Devil Drake Claw
• Giant Blood
• Helkyrie Ichor
• Troll Shaman Finger

4 Darkwood Plank is too much for this. Charm of Health (+2 health in charm slot) is effectively half of this and didn't take any trade goods. Horn of the Blessed Ox (heal 2hp 1/game slotless) is also effectively half of this and SLOTLESS and only required 1 Minotaur Hide. Given those it seems like this should be more like 2 Darkwood Plank, especially since it takes up a very limited slot.

Figurine of Power: Dog lets you heal _another_ character for 4 points of damage, so it's not comparable with either of those examples.

Compare it with Ultra Rare Figurine of Power: Phoenix - it's 20% of the power for ~20% of the price of an in print UR - and more classes can use it.

Chris Heuer wrote: Belt of Ogre Mage Power (****) +3 strength

• Belt of Ogre Power
• Shaman’s Charm
• 10× Mystic Silk
• 1,000 GP equivalent
  plus ONLY ONE of the following:
• Devil Drake Claw
• Giant Blood
• Helkyrie Ichor
• Troll Shaman Finger

10 mystic silk for a gain of 1 strength... who is this for? Look at Blessed Pants of the Hare or Blessed Tempest Gloves from last year which only took 1 trade good each. I get that this is similar to the Blessed Shirt of Strength from two years ago but maybe that was too expensive as well. At least 2016 had the Shirt of Baneful Prowess as something for players like us to shoot for.

Look at the comparison points:

Ultra Rare STR belt options are:

+2 STR and +1 to saves (Girdle of Might)
+3 STR (Girdle of Hill Giant Strength)
+4 STR, -1 DEX (Girdle of Stone Giant Strength)

This is a weak UR level token, for ~$65 worth of ingredients.

Chris Heuer wrote: Enchanter's Whetstone (****) +1 to hit and +1 damage to 1 rare weapon

• +1 Keen Bolt
• 1× Aragonite
• 1× Dwarven Steel
• 1× Elven Bismuth
• 500 GP equivalent
  plus ONLY ONE of the following:
• Devil Drake Claw
• Giant Blood
• Helkyrie Ichor
• Troll Shaman Finger

We were really looking forward to this token as well until we see Aragonite and Elven Bismuth in the recipe. Again, who is this for? Anyone who can afford to waste Aragonite and Elven Bismuth for such a small gain probably uses a UR weapon anyway. Would it be possible drop those from the recipe? This would be fun as a two stage recipe with the first staging only giving one of the two effects...but not Aragonite or Elven Bismuth in either.

For ~$55 you turn _all_ your rare melee and ranged weapons into mediocre to poor UR weapons.

Consider that this token turns a rare Mighty Sling into an Ultra Rare +1 Mighty Sling, and also boosts your melee weapons.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Chris Heuer wrote: Enchanter's Whetstone (****) +1 to hit and +1 damage to 1 rare weapon

• +1 Keen Bolt
• 1× Aragonite
• 1× Dwarven Steel
• 1× Elven Bismuth
• 500 GP equivalent
  plus ONLY ONE of the following:
• Devil Drake Claw
• Giant Blood
• Helkyrie Ichor
• Troll Shaman Finger

We were really looking forward to this token as well until we see Aragonite and Elven Bismuth in the recipe. Again, who is this for? Anyone who can afford to waste Aragonite and Elven Bismuth for such a small gain probably uses a UR weapon anyway. Would it be possible drop those from the recipe? This would be fun as a two stage recipe with the first staging only giving one of the two effects...but not Aragonite or Elven Bismuth in either.

For ~$55 you turn _all_ your rare melee and ranged weapons into mediocre to poor UR weapons.

Consider that this token turns a rare Mighty Sling into an Ultra Rare +1 Mighty Sling, and also boosts your melee weapons.

I would assume it does not make the mighty sling magical though

Chris Heuer wrote: Free movement is a worthless effect when the GMs always say it doesn't work because of "magic".

Can you explain this scenario a bit more?

I've seen free movement be very impactful and applied to a players advantage several times in the last few years:

In 2015:
Water Weird pulled people into a water vortex - free movement prevented it.
Ethereal Hunter grabbed a player - free movement prevented it.
Drow Assassin had webs that players got stuck in - free movement prevented it.

TDC:
Gelatinous Cube captured a player - free movement prevented it.

It doesn't come up all the time, but I haven't seen it negated in situations where it seems like it should apply?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Chris Heuer wrote: Enchanter's Whetstone (****) +1 to hit and +1 damage to 1 rare weapon

• +1 Keen Bolt
• 1× Aragonite
• 1× Dwarven Steel
• 1× Elven Bismuth
• 500 GP equivalent
  plus ONLY ONE of the following:
• Devil Drake Claw
• Giant Blood
• Helkyrie Ichor
• Troll Shaman Finger

We were really looking forward to this token as well until we see Aragonite and Elven Bismuth in the recipe. Again, who is this for? Anyone who can afford to waste Aragonite and Elven Bismuth for such a small gain probably uses a UR weapon anyway. Would it be possible drop those from the recipe? This would be fun as a two stage recipe with the first staging only giving one of the two effects...but not Aragonite or Elven Bismuth in either.

For ~$55 you turn _all_ your rare melee and ranged weapons into mediocre to poor UR weapons.

Consider that this token turns a rare Mighty Sling into an Ultra Rare +1 Mighty Sling, and also boosts your melee weapons.

I would assume it does not make the mighty sling magical though

You're right about that.

On the other hand, in 11 years of playing True Dungeon, I have seen this matter once: against the Chain Devil - and I think you needed at least a +2 weapon to damage the Chain Devil.

Kakitahan wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I’d like to see Aragonite dropped from the Whetstone recipe. If not, then the Bismuth.

Aragonite is easier to get for the same amount of packs opened (1/4 chance for an ingredient vs 1/5 for EB).

I think the key is both the T4 this year are really good transmutes. They give a bonus treasure and increase your power of your Rare weapon to near a UR. They are more expensive because they are more powerful. Dial back the power and decrease the costs.

Ed

Agreed.

I have no idea what you are talking about... for the past 4 GenCon random starter packs I have received mystic silk, oils or scrolls. I was wondering if the good tokens were sent out to the big buyers.

I think the costs are fine. I don't mind things being harder to make. It makes it feel more worth it when I am able to make them.

Kirk Bauer wrote: I’d like to see Aragonite dropped from the Whetstone recipe. If not, then the Bismuth.

The more I think about it, the more I would like to see Bismuth and more steel, without aragonite.

Thematically you are using your common and uncommon weapons to sharpen your rare ones.

I could see it being bismuth and 4 or 5 steel. It isnt good for me personally because I always seem to be short of steel, but whatever.