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TOPIC: +5 Final Transmute Recipes

+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #133

Mike Steele wrote: It looks like there's a huge glut of mystic silk, Darkwood plank, and Philosopher's Stone. Should the recipes be increased for these and maybe decreased for others?


With the number of online auctions the prices seem to be dropping across the board for all trade tokens and bulk GP.

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #134

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It looks like there's a huge glut of mystic silk, Darkwood plank, and Philosopher's Stone. Should the recipes be increased for these and maybe decreased for others?


With the number of online auctions the prices seem to be dropping across the board for all trade tokens and bulk GP.


It's been a pretty steady trend for 2+ years now down.

I've lowered prices on GP incrementally from 2 cents per GP down to 1.6 (I think?) during that time with very few takers.

There was a little spike to Silk and currently Alchemist's Parchment is scarce.


I agree it would be good to hoover up some of the excess trade goods as the current trajectory of declining desirability from to the excess of supply over demand is not good for the game. I think good ways to do that would include:

1. Continue doing auctions post Gen Con - maybe do a sealed bid auction over the forums for people who can't make the live one.

Allow for trade goods in this auction at a conversion rate to GP based on what is in a 1k transmute.

E.g., if a 1k transmute kicks out: 5000 GP, 1 Aragonite, and 15 Mystic Silk then accept 1 Aragonite in auction payments as being worth 5000 GP and Silk as 5000/15 ~= 300 GP.

This would attract whatever trade good is in most abundant supply out of the secondary economy.

2. Introduce higher token tiers. A +1 over Legendary that takes ~3 times the trade goods as a Legendary.

3. Maybe even something more exotic, like a "Epic Treasure Chest" transmute that would take in the trade goods equivalent to a 1k order and get you 4 random in print URs.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #135

For anyone sitting on a horde of trade goods, I'm sure I'm not the only one that would be willing to buy bulk trade goods a little under the existing auction rates.

I have plenty I would like to transmute this year, and have very few trade goods on hand to do the transmutes with.

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #136

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It looks like there's a huge glut of mystic silk, Darkwood plank, and Philosopher's Stone. Should the recipes be increased for these and maybe decreased for others?


With the number of online auctions the prices seem to be dropping across the board for all trade tokens and bulk GP.


It's been a pretty steady trend for 2+ years now down.

I've lowered prices on GP incrementally from 2 cents per GP down to 1.6 (I think?) during that time with very few takers.

There was a little spike to Silk and currently Alchemist's Parchment is scarce.


I agree it would be good to hoover up some of the excess trade goods as the current trajectory of declining desirability from to the excess of supply over demand is not good for the game. I think good ways to do that would include:

1. Continue doing auctions post Gen Con - maybe do a sealed bid auction over the forums for people who can't make the live one.

Allow for trade goods in this auction at a conversion rate to GP based on what is in a 1k transmute.

E.g., if a 1k transmute kicks out: 5000 GP, 1 Aragonite, and 15 Mystic Silk then accept 1 Aragonite in auction payments as being worth 5000 GP and Silk as 5000/15 ~= 300 GP.

This would attract whatever trade good is in most abundant supply out of the secondary economy.

2. Introduce higher token tiers. A +1 over Legendary that takes ~3 times the trade goods as a Legendary.

3. Maybe even something more exotic, like a "Epic Treasure Chest" transmute that would take in the trade goods equivalent to a 1k order and get you 4 random in print URs.


+1 to a higher Token Tier. It's time. Outside of power creep (which can be minimal if done properly) there's no downside. And crank up the ingredients needed to make it. People have a new level to strive for and Jeff sells more Tokens. Win.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #137

Rob F wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It looks like there's a huge glut of mystic silk, Darkwood plank, and Philosopher's Stone. Should the recipes be increased for these and maybe decreased for others?


With the number of online auctions the prices seem to be dropping across the board for all trade tokens and bulk GP.


It's been a pretty steady trend for 2+ years now down.

I've lowered prices on GP incrementally from 2 cents per GP down to 1.6 (I think?) during that time with very few takers.

There was a little spike to Silk and currently Alchemist's Parchment is scarce.


I agree it would be good to hoover up some of the excess trade goods as the current trajectory of declining desirability from to the excess of supply over demand is not good for the game. I think good ways to do that would include:

1. Continue doing auctions post Gen Con - maybe do a sealed bid auction over the forums for people who can't make the live one.

Allow for trade goods in this auction at a conversion rate to GP based on what is in a 1k transmute.

E.g., if a 1k transmute kicks out: 5000 GP, 1 Aragonite, and 15 Mystic Silk then accept 1 Aragonite in auction payments as being worth 5000 GP and Silk as 5000/15 ~= 300 GP.

This would attract whatever trade good is in most abundant supply out of the secondary economy.

2. Introduce higher token tiers. A +1 over Legendary that takes ~3 times the trade goods as a Legendary.

3. Maybe even something more exotic, like a "Epic Treasure Chest" transmute that would take in the trade goods equivalent to a 1k order and get you 4 random in print URs.


+1 to a higher Token Tier. It's time. Outside of power creep (which can be minimal if done properly) there's no downside. And crank up the ingredients needed to make it. People have a new level to strive for and Jeff sells more Tokens. Win.


I'm getting a chuckle hearing you say power creep is not a problem. Are you feeling well? ;)
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Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #138

Harlax wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It looks like there's a huge glut of mystic silk, Darkwood plank, and Philosopher's Stone. Should the recipes be increased for these and maybe decreased for others?


With the number of online auctions the prices seem to be dropping across the board for all trade tokens and bulk GP.


It's been a pretty steady trend for 2+ years now down.

I've lowered prices on GP incrementally from 2 cents per GP down to 1.6 (I think?) during that time with very few takers.

There was a little spike to Silk and currently Alchemist's Parchment is scarce.


I agree it would be good to hoover up some of the excess trade goods as the current trajectory of declining desirability from to the excess of supply over demand is not good for the game. I think good ways to do that would include:

1. Continue doing auctions post Gen Con - maybe do a sealed bid auction over the forums for people who can't make the live one.

Allow for trade goods in this auction at a conversion rate to GP based on what is in a 1k transmute.

E.g., if a 1k transmute kicks out: 5000 GP, 1 Aragonite, and 15 Mystic Silk then accept 1 Aragonite in auction payments as being worth 5000 GP and Silk as 5000/15 ~= 300 GP.

This would attract whatever trade good is in most abundant supply out of the secondary economy.

2. Introduce higher token tiers. A +1 over Legendary that takes ~3 times the trade goods as a Legendary.

3. Maybe even something more exotic, like a "Epic Treasure Chest" transmute that would take in the trade goods equivalent to a 1k order and get you 4 random in print URs.


+1 to a higher Token Tier. It's time. Outside of power creep (which can be minimal if done properly) there's no downside. And crank up the ingredients needed to make it. People have a new level to strive for and Jeff sells more Tokens. Win.


I'm getting a chuckle hearing you say power creep is not a problem. Are you feeling well? ;)


In my defense I did not say power creep is not a problem. I think it is. But it's going to happen in some fashion. Would much rather have the extra power harder to obtain though. A level above Legendary does just that. Much better then via a ton of new slots or slotless Tokens. At least IMO. Plus I don't see any downside to another level. If people think it's not called for well, then just don't make the Token. No biggie. And let the others that can make it make it.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #139

I think just balancing the trade item tokens required might be a better solution for now than another rarity level. I have a ton of Silk, Planks, and Stones that I'd like to transmute, but I can't because of having too few of other items like Steel, Aragonite, Oil, and Bismuth. Clearly the glut of the former three is widespread. Let's adjust the recipes now to address that. May be have some alternate recipes that just take those three.

I wonder if one problem is that the recipes are based on the amount of trade items that come from token purchases, but tokens from the treasure boxes are throwing that off since you can't transmute Steel or Hide from treasure box tokens.

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #140

I don't think another rarity level is the answer. Sure, it would soak up a lot of silk, planks and stones, but it would also very likely require a lot of the other items for which there is already a shortage. So I agree, adjusting the recipes is a good solution. As far as steel and hides being a potential concern because we don't have common items in the treasure box, they could just stock more Dwarven Steel and Minotaur Hide trade tokens in the boxes.

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #141

Dave wrote: I don't think another rarity level is the answer. Sure, it would soak up a lot of silk, planks and stones, but it would also very likely require a lot of the other items for which there is already a shortage. So I agree, adjusting the recipes is a good solution. As far as steel and hides being a potential concern because we don't have common items in the treasure box, they could just stock more Dwarven Steel and Minotaur Hide trade tokens in the boxes.


I was thinking the same thing, adding more Steel and Hide to the boxes would help some.

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #142

It would probably shake up the secondary market prices quite a bit, but a significant rework to how recipes work would possibly solve the balance issue. Something like rather than saying token X requires 10 silk, 5 steel, etc... put point values on the basic trade goods and say token X requires 1 fleece, 1 aragonite, 50 (or whatever number makes sense) points of trade goods. Steel and hide maybe 1 point, plank silk munition stone ink parchment 2 points, bismuth oil 5 points.

What point value each type of item would be worth and if there should be more levels of point options than 3 would need to be worked out.

Alternatively, 'transmute' recipes where you can turn in like 3 plank/silk/munition/stone/ink/parchment for 1 of the others in that set would work too, but I suspect it's preferable to leave that sort of thing to secondary trading.

That said, I'm not entirely sure the current approach needs changing. A couple of years ago silk prices spiked with some recipes out that needed a lot. They've crashed down to closer to $2 in a lot of cases now. I would imagine they'll spike back up sometime in the next 5 years with multiple exalted/relics/legendaries needing a bunch in that year's set. For the largest token collectors, holding onto a ton of silk tokens for multiple years until recipes come out is maybe annoying, but they could just pretend to be dragons and sleep on/swim around in them :)

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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #143

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I'm going to sound off against another rarity. I hate to say it but we may just be at the point where we have to say it is possible to buy more tokens then you need in a year. IMO we don't need another rarity designed for the 1% of the 1% of the 1%, at that point why don't we just identify the mega buyers and give them arcane recipes. IMO if the market is glutted with trade goods we'd be better off coming up with something for the masses to consume them.
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+5 Final Transmute Recipes 5 years 6 months ago #144

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