TOPIC: FINAL Transmute Images

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
The idea is to nudge players into URs.

Putting a treasure cap doesn't do that, it just becomes a bonus to anyone without a CoA.

Of course it does. They just pass it to their buddy a Nugget or two later.

And so what if it helps out someone who already has a CoGF? They get one Nugget, max out at ten. Then they pass it on to allow for a second Nugget, and they’re off to the races.

If I’m a coder, I’d MUCH rather deal with a cap than this endless parade of nested ifs.

And what’s the harm? This whole “one TE” thing just feels petty and pointless to me, never mind convoluted.

“Yes, I get 21 treasure. How dare you want more than 6! Be off, peasants!”

Come on. Here, I’ll fix it for you:

“One TE grants +1 TC (10 max)”

Done

+1 to this. Easier to code, easier to fit on the token. If the issue is really a cap at 10 because someone could buy 3 nuggets and still benefit from the charm, then make it 8 max (allows for mixing with AoTF or 2 nuggets). If you really only want it to work with 1 nugget or 1 rare TE, make it 6 max.

To fully write it out, the description would probaby look like this:

One Treasure Enhancing token gains +1 Treasure chip. Max 6 treasure.

I believe that 6 is too low. Now someone has to decide, do I spend $100 on a second Nugget for a net +1 treasure? Seems like a hard sell. I think 10 is the magic number.

I would very much prefer max 10 as well, but if TPTB have decided that 10 is too much, a lower cap makes the token more future proof and easier to write out than the alternatives.

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
The idea is to nudge players into URs.

Putting a treasure cap doesn't do that, it just becomes a bonus to anyone without a CoA.

Of course it does. They just pass it to their buddy a Nugget or two later.

And so what if it helps out someone who already has a CoGF? They get one Nugget, max out at ten. Then they pass it on to allow for a second Nugget, and they’re off to the races.

If I’m a coder, I’d MUCH rather deal with a cap than this endless parade of nested ifs.

And what’s the harm? This whole “one TE” thing just feels petty and pointless to me, never mind convoluted.

“Yes, I get 21 treasure. How dare you want more than 6! Be off, peasants!”

Come on. Here, I’ll fix it for you:

“One TE grants +1 TC (10 max)”

Done

+1 to this. Easier to code, easier to fit on the token. If the issue is really a cap at 10 because someone could buy 3 nuggets and still benefit from the charm, then make it 8 max (allows for mixing with AoTF or 2 nuggets). If you really only want it to work with 1 nugget or 1 rare TE, make it 6 max.

To fully write it out, the description would probaby look like this:

One Treasure Enhancing token gains +1 Treasure chip. Max 6 treasure.

I believe that 6 is too low. Now someone has to decide, do I spend $100 on a second Nugget for a net +1 treasure? Seems like a hard sell. I think 10 is the magic number.

I would very much prefer max 10 as well, but if TPTB have decided that 10 is too much, a lower cap makes the token more future proof and easier to write out than the alternatives.

I get that TD is a business and needs to make a profit, like any other. But people get annoyed at things like planned obsolescence that seem too much like a money grab. Any cap can be perceived that way, but a one-TE cap just seems to scream it. At a cap of 6, a player with a Nugget exceeds the cap when they hit level 6. Now it feels like they’re being punished for playing too much so they have to throw away their whetstone.

So, yeah, it’s their call. I just hope they go for a reasonable cap and let folks use the whetstone with two or three Nuggets, not just one.

MasterED wrote: On the Charm of Treasure Boosting...

Any UR or lower Treasure Enhancer is +1. May only equip one Treasure Enhancing token.

+1

This wording is much clearer to me.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
The idea is to nudge players into URs.

Putting a treasure cap doesn't do that, it just becomes a bonus to anyone without a CoA.

Of course it does. They just pass it to their buddy a Nugget or two later.

And so what if it helps out someone who already has a CoGF? They get one Nugget, max out at ten. Then they pass it on to allow for a second Nugget, and they’re off to the races.

If I’m a coder, I’d MUCH rather deal with a cap than this endless parade of nested ifs.

And what’s the harm? This whole “one TE” thing just feels petty and pointless to me, never mind convoluted.

“Yes, I get 21 treasure. How dare you want more than 6! Be off, peasants!”

Come on. Here, I’ll fix it for you:

“One TE grants +1 TC (10 max)”

Done

+1 to this. Easier to code, easier to fit on the token. If the issue is really a cap at 10 because someone could buy 3 nuggets and still benefit from the charm, then make it 8 max (allows for mixing with AoTF or 2 nuggets). If you really only want it to work with 1 nugget or 1 rare TE, make it 6 max.

To fully write it out, the description would probaby look like this:

One Treasure Enhancing token gains +1 Treasure chip. Max 6 treasure.

I believe that 6 is too low. Now someone has to decide, do I spend $100 on a second Nugget for a net +1 treasure? Seems like a hard sell. I think 10 is the magic number.

I would very much prefer max 10 as well, but if TPTB have decided that 10 is too much, a lower cap makes the token more future proof and easier to write out than the alternatives.

I get that TD is a business and needs to make a profit, like any other. But people get annoyed at things like planned obsolescence that seem too much like a money grab. Any cap can be perceived that way, but a one-TE cap just seems to scream it. At a cap of 6, a player with a Nugget exceeds the cap when they hit level 6. Now it feels like they’re being punished for playing too much so they have to throw away their whetstone.

So, yeah, it’s their call. I just hope they go for a reasonable cap and let folks use the whetstone with two or three Nuggets, not just one.

I actually like the progression just like it is.

+1 Treasure Coin: Rare
+2 Treasure Coins: Rare + Transmute OR UR Ioun Stone
+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+4 Treasure Coins and up: Multiple URs/Legendary

Of course, the transmute plus UR can be more than that if it's combined with a UR that gives you more treasure coins.

Raven wrote:

MasterED wrote: On the Charm of Treasure Boosting...

Any UR or lower Treasure Enhancer is +1. May only equip one Treasure Enhancing token.

+1

This wording is much clearer to me.

Works for me too. Does that fit on a token?

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
The idea is to nudge players into URs.

Putting a treasure cap doesn't do that, it just becomes a bonus to anyone without a CoA.

Of course it does. They just pass it to their buddy a Nugget or two later.

And so what if it helps out someone who already has a CoGF? They get one Nugget, max out at ten. Then they pass it on to allow for a second Nugget, and they’re off to the races.

If I’m a coder, I’d MUCH rather deal with a cap than this endless parade of nested ifs.

And what’s the harm? This whole “one TE” thing just feels petty and pointless to me, never mind convoluted.

“Yes, I get 21 treasure. How dare you want more than 6! Be off, peasants!”

Come on. Here, I’ll fix it for you:

“One TE grants +1 TC (10 max)”

Done

+1 to this. Easier to code, easier to fit on the token. If the issue is really a cap at 10 because someone could buy 3 nuggets and still benefit from the charm, then make it 8 max (allows for mixing with AoTF or 2 nuggets). If you really only want it to work with 1 nugget or 1 rare TE, make it 6 max.

To fully write it out, the description would probaby look like this:

One Treasure Enhancing token gains +1 Treasure chip. Max 6 treasure.

I believe that 6 is too low. Now someone has to decide, do I spend $100 on a second Nugget for a net +1 treasure? Seems like a hard sell. I think 10 is the magic number.

I would very much prefer max 10 as well, but if TPTB have decided that 10 is too much, a lower cap makes the token more future proof and easier to write out than the alternatives.

I get that TD is a business and needs to make a profit, like any other. But people get annoyed at things like planned obsolescence that seem too much like a money grab. Any cap can be perceived that way, but a one-TE cap just seems to scream it. At a cap of 6, a player with a Nugget exceeds the cap when they hit level 6. Now it feels like they’re being punished for playing too much so they have to throw away their whetstone.

So, yeah, it’s their call. I just hope they go for a reasonable cap and let folks use the whetstone with two or three Nuggets, not just one.

I actually like the progression just like it is.

+1 Treasure Coin: Rare
+2 Treasure Coins: Rare + Transmute OR UR Ioun Stone
+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+4 Treasure Coins and up: Multiple URs/Legendary

Of course, the transmute plus UR can be more than that if it's combined with a UR that gives you more treasure coins.

You missed a (generally) reasonable step there:

+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+5 Treasure Coins: UR AoTF + Transmute

AoTF is 2 Ioun Stones worth of draws, but the transmute still works for it. 1 AoTF is less expensive than 2 Ioun Stones, so the logical path is get the AoTF and transmute and then start worrying about the ioun stones.

Endgame wrote: You missed a (generally) reasonable step there:

+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+5 Treasure Coins: UR AoTF + Transmute

AoTF is 2 Ioun Stones worth of draws, but the transmute still works for it. 1 AoTF is less expensive than 2 Ioun Stones, so the logical path is get the AoTF and transmute and then start worrying about the ioun stones.

There is also:
+5 Treasure Coins: Could also be CoGF + Transmute (If there are 10 in the party)
+7 Treasure Coins: UR HoP +Transmute

Brad Mortensen wrote: And what’s the harm? This whole “one TE” thing just feels petty and pointless to me, never mind convoluted.

“Yes, I get 21 treasure. How dare you want more than 6! Be off, peasants!”

Don't worry. Us plebs know to stay out of the discussions that have a two-PYP minimum.

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: You missed a (generally) reasonable step there:

+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+5 Treasure Coins: UR AoTF + Transmute

AoTF is 2 Ioun Stones worth of draws, but the transmute still works for it. 1 AoTF is less expensive than 2 Ioun Stones, so the logical path is get the AoTF and transmute and then start worrying about the ioun stones.

There is also:
+5 Treasure Coins: Could also be CoGF + Transmute (If there are 10 in the party)
+7 Treasure Coins: UR HoP +Transmute

So the theoretical max treasure would be 11 - HOP, Charm, Normal draws, 6th level bonus. A pretty unlikely scenario, but certainly possible.

Mike Steele wrote:

Raven wrote:

MasterED wrote: On the Charm of Treasure Boosting...

Any UR or lower Treasure Enhancer is +1. May only equip one Treasure Enhancing token.

+1

This wording is much clearer to me.

Works for me too. Does that fit on a token?

+2 Love this wording!

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
The idea is to nudge players into URs.

Putting a treasure cap doesn't do that, it just becomes a bonus to anyone without a CoA.

Of course it does. They just pass it to their buddy a Nugget or two later.

And so what if it helps out someone who already has a CoGF? They get one Nugget, max out at ten. Then they pass it on to allow for a second Nugget, and they’re off to the races.

If I’m a coder, I’d MUCH rather deal with a cap than this endless parade of nested ifs.

And what’s the harm? This whole “one TE” thing just feels petty and pointless to me, never mind convoluted.

“Yes, I get 21 treasure. How dare you want more than 6! Be off, peasants!”

Come on. Here, I’ll fix it for you:

“One TE grants +1 TC (10 max)”

Done

+1 to this. Easier to code, easier to fit on the token. If the issue is really a cap at 10 because someone could buy 3 nuggets and still benefit from the charm, then make it 8 max (allows for mixing with AoTF or 2 nuggets). If you really only want it to work with 1 nugget or 1 rare TE, make it 6 max.

To fully write it out, the description would probaby look like this:

One Treasure Enhancing token gains +1 Treasure chip. Max 6 treasure.

I believe that 6 is too low. Now someone has to decide, do I spend $100 on a second Nugget for a net +1 treasure? Seems like a hard sell. I think 10 is the magic number.

I would very much prefer max 10 as well, but if TPTB have decided that 10 is too much, a lower cap makes the token more future proof and easier to write out than the alternatives.

I get that TD is a business and needs to make a profit, like any other. But people get annoyed at things like planned obsolescence that seem too much like a money grab. Any cap can be perceived that way, but a one-TE cap just seems to scream it. At a cap of 6, a player with a Nugget exceeds the cap when they hit level 6. Now it feels like they’re being punished for playing too much so they have to throw away their whetstone.

So, yeah, it’s their call. I just hope they go for a reasonable cap and let folks use the whetstone with two or three Nuggets, not just one.

I actually like the progression just like it is.

+1 Treasure Coin: Rare
+2 Treasure Coins: Rare + Transmute OR UR Ioun Stone
+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+4 Treasure Coins and up: Multiple URs/Legendary

Of course, the transmute plus UR can be more than that if it's combined with a UR that gives you more treasure coins.

You missed a (generally) reasonable step there:

+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+5 Treasure Coins: UR AoTF + Transmute

AoTF is 2 Ioun Stones worth of draws, but the transmute still works for it. 1 AoTF is less expensive than 2 Ioun Stones, so the logical path is get the AoTF and transmute and then start worrying about the ioun stones.

Well, I didn't really miss it, that's what my last sentence was addressing. I was just talking about what tokens are available for new players from True Dungeon. You're right in that from the secondary market the HoP, RoR, CoGF, and AoTF are also options for the single UR/Rare.

I'd recommend to a new player, though, that even if they get the AoTF, they should make sure to get the current Ioun Stone while it is still in print. We're already seeing what happens to the pricing as soon as it goes out of print.

Harlax wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote: You missed a (generally) reasonable step there:

+3 Treasure Coins: UR Ioun Stone + Transmute
+5 Treasure Coins: UR AoTF + Transmute

AoTF is 2 Ioun Stones worth of draws, but the transmute still works for it. 1 AoTF is less expensive than 2 Ioun Stones, so the logical path is get the AoTF and transmute and then start worrying about the ioun stones.

There is also:
+5 Treasure Coins: Could also be CoGF + Transmute (If there are 10 in the party)
+7 Treasure Coins: UR HoP +Transmute

So the theoretical max treasure would be 11 - HOP, Charm, Normal draws, 6th level bonus. A pretty unlikely scenario, but certainly possible.

And this is the logic I don't like.

Perfectly OK to stack this charm If you have a HoP (worth at least 5 Ioun stones), but stacking with 2 ioun stones is totally not OK? Odd logic.