TOPIC: FINAL Transmute Images

Brad Mortensen wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: You’re probably right, but I think that’ll make it the first four-star designed to be obsolete within a year.

I am not sure why you say that. Please explain.

Ed

Someone buys a ISGN next year and uses the TB for +3. The year after, the next Nugget comes out and the TB is worthless (to them)

Granted, if they do that this year, the TB lasts two years. So maybe I should have said two.

I know other four-stars can be upgraded, but some (Shirt of Blessed Strength) are used in epic builds. But this one is designed to be useless after one or two years.

That’s what I meant.

I would say that may be true for those doing PYPs and larger orders. But I run in PUG groups where most people have 0 TEs, not even rares. I bring 5 lenses of fortune to give them an extra chip. So 5 of these charms could last forever to certain players, but will be obsolete for me before I even craft it. I think it depends on the progression of the player, some may get to 1 URTE and stay there, or some may get to 2 and then trade/sell off the Charm, but it will still hold value, so I wouldn't say it is going to be definitively obsolete in 2 years.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: You’re probably right, but I think that’ll make it the first four-star designed to be obsolete within a year.

I am not sure why you say that. Please explain.

Ed

Someone buys a ISGN next year and uses the TB for +3. The year after, the next Nugget comes out and the TB is worthless (to them)

Granted, if they do that this year, the TB lasts two years. So maybe I should have said two.

I know other four-stars can be upgraded, but some (Shirt of Blessed Strength) are used in epic builds. But this one is designed to be useless after one or two years.

That’s what I meant.

I guess the key is that even when it's worthless to that person, it has worth to someone else that only has on TE or will be getting their first TE, so it has trade/resale/gift value at that point.

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Arnold wrote: Unless the Ioun stones make a big jump, AoTF costs a lot more than 2 IS's.

I also don't think we should be comparing HoP to 2x Ioun stones either. Very unrealistic.

I bought a AoTF at Gen Con for 175, while Silver Nuggets ran me 125 each. Perhaps I should have just bought 3 extra AoTF instead of Silver Nuggets at that price.

Anyway, why is it OK to boost the AoTF (5 treasure pulls total), but not a Silver Nugget + a Gold Nugget (5 treasure pulls total)?

Because if you want to get the IS Gold Nugget this year it is better to have all three without the Charm since it won't work. The Plan for the Charm is to boost folks with 1 TE token. Mostly those with the Rare. If you got one UR TE chances are you will get/have more than 1. And if you got the ISSN, you can get the ISGN this year and the IS Platinum Nugget in two more years.

There will be a lot of people who will get the Golden Nugget as their first UR TE token this year. The transmute will work great for them until they get a second UR TE.

Which is why I said if they have a UR TE chances are you will get/have more than 1.

True. The point I was making is that even if someone gets their first TE UR, and will be getting a second TE UR sometime in the future, this transmute works well for them until they get that second TE UR. Which could be a couple of years, if they get their Golden Nugget as their first this year.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: You’re probably right, but I think that’ll make it the first four-star designed to be obsolete within a year.

I am not sure why you say that. Please explain.

Ed

Someone buys a ISGN next year and uses the TB for +3. The year after, the next Nugget comes out and the TB is worthless (to them)

Granted, if they do that this year, the TB lasts two years. So maybe I should have said two.

I know other four-stars can be upgraded, but some (Shirt of Blessed Strength) are used in epic builds. But this one is designed to be useless after one or two years.

That’s what I meant.

Ah, thanks. So yes, if they buy 2 UR TE, then the charm is no longer useful to them. They sell, trade, or give it to another member of their group. Just like when anyone upgrades gear.

IMO - I think that token will see a lot of play and use over the next 5 years by many people.

Ed

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Arnold wrote: Unless the Ioun stones make a big jump, AoTF costs a lot more than 2 IS's.

I also don't think we should be comparing HoP to 2x Ioun stones either. Very unrealistic.

I bought a AoTF at Gen Con for 175, while Silver Nuggets ran me 125 each. Perhaps I should have just bought 3 extra AoTF instead of Silver Nuggets at that price.

Anyway, why is it OK to boost the AoTF (5 treasure pulls total), but not a Silver Nugget + a Gold Nugget (5 treasure pulls total)?

Because if you want to get the IS Gold Nugget this year it is better to have all three without the Charm since it won't work. The Plan for the Charm is to boost folks with 1 TE token. Mostly those with the Rare. If you got one UR TE chances are you will get/have more than 1. And if you got the ISSN, you can get the ISGN this year and the IS Platinum Nugget in two more years.

That still doesn't explain why its OK for this TE booster to give you a 8th treasure token if you have a AoTF, but its not OK for this TE booster to give you a 8th token if you have a Silver and Gold nugget.

Because it's not the count that matters in the design. It's the quantity of TEs used.

If you got your AoTF for 175 you did very well for yourself.

Begging the question. The question is “why is that okay?”

And the answer is probably “because.”

The "because" answer pretty much sucks.

As it stands the point where the treasure booster charm becomes useless is arbitrary and unevenly applied, favoring people with OOP tokens that give higher amounts of treasure. The current format says its OK to give someone a 8th token for a AoTF or a CoGF, and this is not over powered. However, it is not OK to give someone a 8th token because they bought 2 Ioun Stones, because 2 UR TE is more tokens and more slots than 1 TE which only uses 1 slot.

To best encourage sales, the TE booster should be capped at at at least a 8 (max treasure draws allowed under the "boost 1 token" format) or 10 to encourage players to buy all of the Ioun Stones (though silver is essentially OOP).

*Edit* correct spelling and treasure counts.

Mike Steele wrote: True. The point I was making is that even if someone gets their first TE UR, and will be getting a second TE UR sometime in the future, this transmute works well for them until they get that second TE UR. Which could be a couple of years, if they get their Golden Nugget as their first this year.

Ahhh yes. We agree. And then they can probably sell the TB to someone else because it will be OOP then. Might make a reason for me to make some after all....lol.

Dave wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Endgame wrote: Perfectly OK to stack this charm If you have a HoP (worth at least 5 Ioun stones), but stacking with 2 ioun stones is totally not OK? Odd logic.

Virtually no one is going to use the Charm of Treasure Boosting with a HoP. If you own a HoP odds are you already own other TE tokens.

Look at the purpose of the Charm of Treasure Boosting. It allows a newer player without UR TE to pick up a Rare TE, use it for +1 treasure (inexpensive Rare). Then transmute a Charm of Treasure Boosting for +2 treasure (more expensive but less than the cost of an UR).

Then they want to take the plunge for a UR Ioun Stone. They get rid of their Rare and now have the Charm and Ioun Stone for +3 Treasure Chips (all beyond the normal ticket).

They really love TD and now want to buy a second UR TE token, now is when they retire the Charm of Treasure Boosting after their purchase and they are 4+ TE.

How you implement it I am agnostic to, as long as that player path is kept I am good.

Ed

Actually, HOP is the only TE my friend owns. He doesn't buy any URs, but got a Mithral Coin of Fate during the one year of exceptional treasure and got his HOP that way. He's had good luck with treasure pulls getting an icecrag's and keen slayer bow out of the box as well.

Can I get your friend to pull for me?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Dave wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Endgame wrote: Perfectly OK to stack this charm If you have a HoP (worth at least 5 Ioun stones), but stacking with 2 ioun stones is totally not OK? Odd logic.

Virtually no one is going to use the Charm of Treasure Boosting with a HoP. If you own a HoP odds are you already own other TE tokens.

Look at the purpose of the Charm of Treasure Boosting. It allows a newer player without UR TE to pick up a Rare TE, use it for +1 treasure (inexpensive Rare). Then transmute a Charm of Treasure Boosting for +2 treasure (more expensive but less than the cost of an UR).

Then they want to take the plunge for a UR Ioun Stone. They get rid of their Rare and now have the Charm and Ioun Stone for +3 Treasure Chips (all beyond the normal ticket).

They really love TD and now want to buy a second UR TE token, now is when they retire the Charm of Treasure Boosting after their purchase and they are 4+ TE.

How you implement it I am agnostic to, as long as that player path is kept I am good.

Ed

Actually, HOP is the only TE my friend owns. He doesn't buy any URs, but got a Mithral Coin of Fate during the one year of exceptional treasure and got his HOP that way. He's had good luck with treasure pulls getting an icecrag's and keen slayer bow out of the box as well.

Can I get your friend to pull for me?

Ed tried that with jedibcg after his crazy pulls. It didn't get Ed better tokens, but it does seem to have broken jedi's luck.

Fiddy wrote: Ed tried that with jedibcg after his crazy pulls. It didn't get Ed better tokens, but it does seem to have broken jedi's luck.

Which is all that matters (misery loves company)!

Ed

Fiddy wrote: Ed tried that with jedibcg after his crazy pulls. It didn't get Ed better tokens, but it does seem to have broken jedi's luck.

Just putting it out there I was only really lucky at TDC. If Ed did break my luck though. Does that mean I need him to pull for me to get my luck back?

Checking token DB, is the HoP 3 extra tokens, or 6 extra tokens? If its 6, I need to edit my edit to say that 10 pulls with the new charm is the max, not 8.

Endgame wrote: Checking token DB, is the HoP 3 extra tokens, or 6 extra tokens? If its 6, I need to edit my edit to say that 10 pulls with the new charm is the max, not 8.

6 as of the Errata:

tokendb.com/token/horn-of-plenty/

And I am fine with you saying 11 is the max (3 from the ticket, 6 from HoP, 1 from CoTB, 1 from Player Level) but you have to include only 1 UR TE can be equipped.


Ed