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TOPIC: FINAL Ultra Rare Images

FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #61

jedibcg wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Lordoftherealm wrote: One last thing...

We are changing the Shadowskin, because grind has a problem with it? So you miss the first hit against the players. Are you supposed to go out of your way to TPK a party? Is Td not about the players having fun? I miss players all of the time in the regular dungeon. It is never my intention to kill off players.

Ever.



No, no. It's not just because of Grind.

Shadowskin is a problem in the main dungeon. There aren't a lot of combat rounds to begin with and the monsters don't get many attacks. It's rare to get attacked (let alone hit) by the same monster more than once in a single room. So with the old Cloak of Shadowskin you really don't have to worry about melee/missile attacks. Even more so if you are Druid/Ranger with the Owl Figurine as a backup.

If anything, it's easy enough for me to work around it in Grind. And in fact, I have (and have had to) do that in the past because the Cloak of Shadowskin is so overpowered!


Then why not scale up the combat instead of nerfing good items.. Let the monsters attack once at normal, 2x at hardcore, 3x at nightmare and 5x at epic.

Again who is annoyed the DM? I still believe it should be about the players. We do not get to make calls as DMs, we have to call and AC if we want to change anything...

Are then you saying all players at a certain lvl would have to have this token?


Not at all..

One of the funniest combats I DMd, was a paladin that guarded 2 (in a small group). I targeted the paladin first then the two that were guarded and rolled three 20's, it is all in the dice.
Last edit: by Lordoftherealm. Reason: Freaking spellcheck is brutal lol
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #62

Phrash wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Eternal Ice Crystal should have "All except Ranger" just like the Rare Brawler's Mug (Rangers must slide two weapons in melee, this is not a weapon).


I would also consider adding Monk to the list of people not allowed, if not then think about how to deal with this sleaze:

Monk equips Eternal Ice Crystal in character builder, gets +3 to damage on the party card. Then in the dungeon Monk switches to 2 Flurry of Blows compatible weapons and gets the damage boost anyway (since it's on the party card).

It is already possible to do this sleaze with a monk and a Brawler's Mug (Rare). Not sure it would be doing a whole lot by adding a bunch of text to this token.

Here's another sleaze: monk uses +5 Thor's in ranged main hand slot for +5 to hit at ranged and, in the dungeon, proceeds to use 2 Shurikens of Venom a round. Woo.

Could maybe add it to the tokenDB description so the App makers do not allow it? Feels like a waste writing all the restrictions on the token when people who really want to sleaze will probably find another way to do it.


If rangers can't use it, it should be written on the token.

The Monk thing should be clarified, and if not allowed written into TokenDB.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #63

Shaman's Belt - "Druid & Wizard" should be "Druid & Wizards" for consistency
Classes Played: Barbarian (65 times), Monk (56), Ranger (33), Rogue (25), Cleric (21), Fighter (13), Druid (12), Paladin (11), Dwarf Fighter (10), Bard (7), Elf Wizard (2), Wizard (2)
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #64

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would also consider adding Monk to the list of people not allowed, if not then think about how to deal with this sleaze:

Monk equips Eternal Ice Crystal in character builder, gets +3 to damage on the party card. Then in the dungeon Monk switches to 2 Flurry of Blows compatible weapons and gets the damage boost anyway (since it's on the party card).

I am sure that could happen but why, when a Monk will equip a 1 handed FoB to start with (all FoB are 1 handed) and the Crystal in the off-hand to start with.

Why would they change their weapons? Unless you are saying they might switch to a non-FoB weapon (i.e. 2 Handed one) - which any class could also do.

Ed
Useful Links:
TD Character Creator
Amorgen's Excel Char Gen Tool
Token DataBase
Talking TD Podcast

TD Accomplishments:
Member of the first team to survive Epic True Grind
1st Solo NM as Poly Druid
Proud member of Gas Station Sushi
Don't Nerf Our Tokens!
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #65

MasterED wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would also consider adding Monk to the list of people not allowed, if not then think about how to deal with this sleaze:

Monk equips Eternal Ice Crystal in character builder, gets +3 to damage on the party card. Then in the dungeon Monk switches to 2 Flurry of Blows compatible weapons and gets the damage boost anyway (since it's on the party card).

I am sure that could happen but why, when a Monk will equip a 1 handed FoB to start with (all FoB are 1 handed) and the Crystal in the off-hand to start with.

Why would they change their weapons? Unless you are saying they might switch to a non-FoB weapon (i.e. 2 Handed one) - which any class could also do.

Ed


It seems like people are wanting the character generators, and the token itself, to specifically disallow rangers and monks, to prevent a very particular type of "cheating" to falsely increase ones melee damage stat.

If we are worried about this, honestly everything is on the table. There is no way to check in the dungeon if you really had everything you say you had plugged into the app.

You could just show a questors for the free reroll of a 1.

You can carry a dozen figurines and just show the one you need to in that moment.

You can equip a UR for a specific bonus, then switch it out to a different one with a higher bonus.

Our game is on the honor system (we control our own HP!), this is a solution in search of a problem.

If the Brawler's mug has set a precedent, we should follow that, barring an extremely compelling reason not to.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #66

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would also consider adding Monk to the list of people not allowed, if not then think about how to deal with this sleaze:

Monk equips Eternal Ice Crystal in character builder, gets +3 to damage on the party card. Then in the dungeon Monk switches to 2 Flurry of Blows compatible weapons and gets the damage boost anyway (since it's on the party card).

I am sure that could happen but why, when a Monk will equip a 1 handed FoB to start with (all FoB are 1 handed) and the Crystal in the off-hand to start with.

Why would they change their weapons? Unless you are saying they might switch to a non-FoB weapon (i.e. 2 Handed one) - which any class could also do.

Ed


It seems like people are wanting the character generators, and the token itself, to specifically disallow rangers and monks, to prevent a very particular type of "cheating" to falsely increase ones melee damage stat.

If we are worried about this, honestly everything is on the table. There is no way to check in the dungeon if you really had everything you say you had plugged into the app.

You could just show a questors for the free reroll of a 1.

You can carry a dozen figurines and just show the one you need to in that moment.

You can equip a UR for a specific bonus, then switch it out to a different one with a higher bonus.

Our game is on the honor system (we control our own HP!), this is a solution in search of a problem.

If the Brawler's mug has set a precedent, we should follow that, barring an extremely compelling reason not to.


There's a difference between Rangers and Monks.

Rangers cannot use this item, as they must slide two pucks in melee. The rules even explicitly state that if a Ranger loses one of their melee weapons, they must switch to ranged combat. (from the PHB)

Monks have the option to slide one or two pucks in melee. They should still be able to equip this item, but not if they're using a second melee weapon.

So the token itself should be marked to exclude Rangers, but not Monks.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #67

MasterED wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would also consider adding Monk to the list of people not allowed, if not then think about how to deal with this sleaze:

Monk equips Eternal Ice Crystal in character builder, gets +3 to damage on the party card. Then in the dungeon Monk switches to 2 Flurry of Blows compatible weapons and gets the damage boost anyway (since it's on the party card).

I am sure that could happen but why, when a Monk will equip a 1 handed FoB to start with (all FoB are 1 handed) and the Crystal in the off-hand to start with.

Why would they change their weapons? Unless you are saying they might switch to a non-FoB weapon (i.e. 2 Handed one) - which any class could also do.

Ed


It seems like people are wanting the character generators, and the token itself, to specifically disallow rangers and monks, to prevent a very particular type of "cheating" to falsely increase ones melee damage stat.

If we are worried about this, honestly everything is on the table. There is no way to check in the dungeon if you really had everything you say you had plugged into the app.

You could just show a questors for the free reroll of a 1.

You can carry a dozen figurines and just show the one you need to in that moment.

You can equip a UR for a specific bonus, then switch it out to a different one with a higher bonus.

Our game is on the honor system (we control our own HP!), this is a solution in search of a problem.

If the Brawler's mug has set a precedent, we should follow that, barring an extremely compelling reason not to.


There's a difference between Rangers and Monks.

Rangers cannot use this item, as they must slide two pucks in melee. The rules even explicitly state that if a Ranger loses one of their melee weapons, they must switch to ranged combat. (from the PHB)

Monks have the option to slide one or two pucks in melee. They should still be able to equip this item, but not if they're using a second melee weapon.

So the token itself should be marked to exclude Rangers, but not Monks.

Fiddy, I concur with everything you said but, "They should still be able to equip this item, but not if they're using a second melee weapon." Enlighten me on what I am missing?

Ed


Just that Monks shouldn't be able to equip this at the same time they equip two weapons. The character builders already prevent you from building a character like that, but as others pointed out already, a Monk could sleaze by equipping the crystal and then using an offhand weapon in the Dungeon. I don't think it is worth trying to come with a way to prevent that, but I do think there is no reason to open the door to Rangers also sleazing, since technically that option shouldn't even exist.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #68

Fiddy wrote: Just that Monks shouldn't be able to equip this at the same time they equip two weapons. The character builders already prevent you from building a character like that, but as others pointed out already, a Monk could sleaze by equipping the crystal and then using an offhand weapon in the Dungeon. I don't think it is worth trying to come with a way to prevent that, but I do think there is no reason to open the door to Rangers also sleazing, since technically that option shouldn't even exist.

Yeah, got it - where was my head!

Guess my Monk won't be using any new UR items from this year's set.

Ed
Useful Links:
TD Character Creator
Amorgen's Excel Char Gen Tool
Token DataBase
Talking TD Podcast

TD Accomplishments:
Member of the first team to survive Epic True Grind
1st Solo NM as Poly Druid
Proud member of Gas Station Sushi
Don't Nerf Our Tokens!
Last edit: by MasterED.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #69

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would also consider adding Monk to the list of people not allowed, if not then think about how to deal with this sleaze:

Monk equips Eternal Ice Crystal in character builder, gets +3 to damage on the party card. Then in the dungeon Monk switches to 2 Flurry of Blows compatible weapons and gets the damage boost anyway (since it's on the party card).

I am sure that could happen but why, when a Monk will equip a 1 handed FoB to start with (all FoB are 1 handed) and the Crystal in the off-hand to start with.

Why would they change their weapons? Unless you are saying they might switch to a non-FoB weapon (i.e. 2 Handed one) - which any class could also do.

Ed


It seems like people are wanting the character generators, and the token itself, to specifically disallow rangers and monks, to prevent a very particular type of "cheating" to falsely increase ones melee damage stat.

If we are worried about this, honestly everything is on the table. There is no way to check in the dungeon if you really had everything you say you had plugged into the app.

You could just show a questors for the free reroll of a 1.

You can carry a dozen figurines and just show the one you need to in that moment.

You can equip a UR for a specific bonus, then switch it out to a different one with a higher bonus.

Our game is on the honor system (we control our own HP!), this is a solution in search of a problem.

If the Brawler's mug has set a precedent, we should follow that, barring an extremely compelling reason not to.


This “very specific kind of cheating” is pretty much exactly what drew errata for Orb of Might - I’m just trying to get the obvious design intent (e.g. you have to actually be holding this thing when you attack to benefit) clarified before someone buys this thinking it’s a slotless +3 melee damage for monks.

The text was already clarified once in design changing it from melee offhand to both melee and ranged offhand to make sure you couldn’t shield set sleaze this.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #70

But what if you're using the ice crystal in your brawlers mug to keep your potions cold?
Fall down......Go boom!

Adam Guay
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #71

Adam Guay wrote: But what if you're using the ice crystal in your brawlers mug to keep your potions cold?


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"IMHO we like to solve problems here on the forums that are only perceived problems due to a myopic view." -Bob C
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FINAL Ultra Rare Images 5 years 6 months ago #72

Adam Guay wrote: But what if you're using the ice crystal in your brawlers mug to keep your potions cold?


Simple, your potions overflow the mug, and due to their intense cold they do 10 points cold dage to the wielder.

Also, when you go to swing your mug, the stone comes out, allowing the monster to steal it and gain +3 cold damage to you.
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