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TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images !!

2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #97

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'


It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think

does not work. that would aallow you to use it with 2 IS Nuggets. or worse all TE UR’s.

Hmm, interesting point. However, would that be a problem? It still wouldn't raise the treasure cap since it doesn't stack with the coa, and it wouldnt ever discourage buying a new purple te.


There are some who still use the pieces rather than the CoA, so it could raise the cap.

Ah. Trying to figure out how to phrase it while still fitting on the token. How about :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1, limit max treasure 10.

No need to mention the coa, and could still be used with all of the upcoming ioun stones so as to encourage UR TE purchases.


Yes. Please.

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #98

I would also like to see the "bead" be a Charm or Ioun Stone with +3 to saves and Free Movement.

As a bead I feel like it kills build diversity.

But I also do not plan on getting the Ioun Stone TEs, so there's that.
Playing True Dungeon since 2012.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #99

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'


It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think

does not work. that would aallow you to use it with 2 IS Nuggets. or worse all TE UR’s.

Hmm, interesting point. However, would that be a problem? It still wouldn't raise the treasure cap since it doesn't stack with the coa, and it wouldnt ever discourage buying a new purple te.


There are some who still use the pieces rather than the CoA, so it could raise the cap.

James J Krot wrote:

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote: I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back.

Which Exalted does the Rare Bead transmute into, is it the Lucky Traveler?


I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back as well, it seems to be going backwards to me.


Agreed. I'd rather take +1 on the modifier than +5 to HP.


The problem is +5 was to powerful +4 with hp is the most sane compromise.


Except for Clerics......


Exactly...
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #100

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Brad Mortensen wrote:

Xavon wrote: The more I think about it, the more I like my middle suggestion. Want to reword it:

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +4 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +2 DEX, +4 CON

I would also be satisfied with

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +4 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON

The reason I like these is because they fit the theme of the kilts; choose one stat to boost and get side-effects on the other two. Only at the Eldritch level, the boost is a bit smaller, and the side effect is a lesser positive instead of a negative.


And none of that helps me either


I know. 5 would get you closer but you want the 6. But I don't think that's on the table.

Out of curiosity, what do you use for the other 3 DEX you need beyond the Fatherbane Kilt?
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe, which strives to produce bigger idiots.  <br /><br />So far, the Universe is winning.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #101

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'


It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think


Well, it needs to be clear that it can only stack with one TE. If someone has more than one TE, this is useless. It's kind of a bridge between the +1 Rare TE token and someone's first (or I guess second) UR TE token.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #102

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'


It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think

does not work. that would aallow you to use it with 2 IS Nuggets. or worse all TE UR’s.

Hmm, interesting point. However, would that be a problem? It still wouldn't raise the treasure cap since it doesn't stack with the coa, and it wouldnt ever discourage buying a new purple te.


There are some who still use the pieces rather than the CoA, so it could raise the cap.

James J Krot wrote:

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote: I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back.

Which Exalted does the Rare Bead transmute into, is it the Lucky Traveler?


I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back as well, it seems to be going backwards to me.


Agreed. I'd rather take +1 on the modifier than +5 to HP.


The problem is +5 was to powerful +4 with hp is the most sane compromise.


Except for Clerics......


Exactly...


This just feels like the year of “kick Jan Brady the Cleric in the face.” At least Marsha the Druid got her class legendary.

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #103

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I would personally prefer a straight +3 saves on the beads or +3 and something other than free movement

Maybe add free movement to the kilt instead


I like this an an additional solution to the kilt/bead debate.

Atm, this bead will be the auto BIS for now (until TPTB get squirrelly and make a bead that boosts a stat, and then we will go further down that rabbit hole). I’m totally okay with a +2 saves and free movement, or even just +2 to saves If the bead is meant to be a small bonus slot and not go the way of the pants. If the intend is to use the slot more liberally, than this bead will go the way of the dragon tooth amulet and medallion of Greyhawk, and just be outclassed by the newest stuff.

The kilt as is will be argued against the other kilts, and I see that as problematic as the eldritch should, on its own, be demonstratively better. That said, with the bonuses going haywire and being a +6 (and let’s be honest - any with a high end build can skirt the negative in lieu of maxing their desired stat), it’s hard to balance this. I don’t think it’s okay to talk about the eldritch set bonus as that isn’t an automatic - it’s dependent on someone having other exceptionally high end, multi-year tokens, and I don’t think that is a healthy way to examine it. The highest of the high collectors might have these in spades, but most folks in the mid tier/mid tier+ aren’t going to have access to those - but the kilt being a 3 year was the most attainable of the eldritch transmutes. The ring and boots both meet or exceed the totals of the components that went in to make them, and both of those eldritch items are noticeably better and universal. I think the only reason the kilt is different is because it is the only item that deals with core stats and therefore changes the way a character drives.

So, as stated, maybe leave the kilt as presented, with the +4 to your choice, +5 HP, and then add either free movement here, or the proposed +1 to hit (which kind of splits the bonus of both the Dex and Str and acts as a middle ground). Heck, I could even see it being ‘between STR, DEX, and CON. Add +4 to one, add +2 to another, +5 additional HP.’

Or even +4 to one, +2 to the others (which eliminates the need of the 5 hp and would grant save bonuses and other downstream boosts).

This might not mitigate the root bonus of the URs (which again, barrelbane is still an issue imho, but so are the others with some focused builds), but this might fix how it appears at its core, for a token that should absolutely be the BiS.
Do well and you will have no need for ancestors. - Voltaire
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #104

Xavon wrote: The more I think about it, the more I like my middle suggestion. Want to reword it:

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +4 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +2 DEX, +4 CON

I would also be satisfied with

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +4 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON

The reason I like these is because they fit the theme of the kilts; choose one stat to boost and get side-effects on the other two. Only at the Eldritch level, the boost is a bit smaller, and the side effect is a lesser positive instead of a negative.


I'd probably be onboard with the first of those options. I'd also be cool with +4 to any two of the three.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #105

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'


It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think


Well, it needs to be clear that it can only stack with one TE. If someone has more than one TE, this is useless. It's kind of a bridge between the +1 Rare TE token and someone's first (or I guess second) UR TE token.

If you don't want it to be used with additional TES, keep the existing text. This proposed wording is to address the complaint that the token as worded would be a disencentive to purchasing the ur TEs. Kind of have to pick one or the other....
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #106

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'


It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think


Well, it needs to be clear that it can only stack with one TE. If someone has more than one TE, this is useless. It's kind of a bridge between the +1 Rare TE token and someone's first (or I guess second) UR TE token.

If you don't want it to be used with additional TES, keep the existing text. This proposed wording is to address the complaint that the token as worded would be a disencentive to purchasing the ur TEs. Kind of have to pick one or the other....


I think “max 10 TC” should supersede the “only one other TE” text. Why would stacking with a +6 HoP be okay but stacking with three +2 Nuggets not? Seems arbitrary and capricious, and much harder to code for. And the cap would encourage buying more Nuggets, while a “one TE” limitation would not.

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #107

I have a question about the Necklace of the Sneak and Raven's Sneaky Necklace that I haven't seen addressed yet. How will the expanded crit range interact with Nightshade's +2 Short Sword? If a Rogue wearing Necklace of the Sneak makes a melee sneak attack using Nightshade's and slides a 19 (or Raven's and sides a 17-19), does that also trigger the "double all damage, including sneak attack bonus" benefit of Nightshade's? (Assuming the monster is subject to critical hits/can be sneak attacked or the Rogue is wearing Bracers of Guided Strike?) If so, that would make the Rogue in my party pretty darn happy.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images !! 5 years 6 months ago #108

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'


It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think


Well, it needs to be clear that it can only stack with one TE. If someone has more than one TE, this is useless. It's kind of a bridge between the +1 Rare TE token and someone's first (or I guess second) UR TE token.

If you don't want it to be used with additional TES, keep the existing text. This proposed wording is to address the complaint that the token as worded would be a disencentive to purchasing the ur TEs. Kind of have to pick one or the other....


I think “max 10 TC” should supersede the “only one other TE” text. Why would stacking with a +6 HoP be okay but stacking with three +2 Nuggets not? Seems arbitrary and capricious, and much harder to code for. And the cap would encourage buying more Nuggets, while a “one TE” limitation would not.


I don't really agree with that. If it can just stack with one TE, as I think currently planned, it's not an obstacle to buying more than 1 UR TE. If you get this and a Rare, you're at 2 TCs. This and an Ioun Stone is at 3 TCs. Two Ioun Stones is 4 TCs. I think it's great just the way it is.

Plus, I doubt it will be stacking with many HoPs, anyone with one of those likely has more TE tokens than that. This will likely stack with the Ioun Stones at the UR level.
Last edit: by Mike Steele.
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