TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images !!

James J Krot wrote:

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote: I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back.

Which Exalted does the Rare Bead transmute into, is it the Lucky Traveler?

I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back as well, it seems to be going backwards to me.

Agreed. I'd rather take +1 on the modifier than +5 to HP.

The problem is +5 was to powerful +4 with hp is the most sane compromise.

I fail to see how getting an additional +1 bonus to a attribute of choice, if you arrange your full set of boosts to land on even, is that much better than getting half (or 2/3s) of the bonus to one of the three attributes regardless.

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'

It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think

does not work. that would aallow you to use it with 2 IS Nuggets. or worse all TE UR’s.

Hmm, interesting point. However, would that be a problem? It still wouldn't raise the treasure cap since it doesn't stack with the coa, and it wouldnt ever discourage buying a new purple te.

There are some who still use the pieces rather than the CoA, so it could raise the cap.

James J Krot wrote:

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote: I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back.

Which Exalted does the Rare Bead transmute into, is it the Lucky Traveler?

I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back as well, it seems to be going backwards to me.

Agreed. I'd rather take +1 on the modifier than +5 to HP.

The problem is +5 was to powerful +4 with hp is the most sane compromise.

Except for Clerics......

David Harris wrote: Thoughts on the Bead -

Most of the debate has been on +2 or +3, in my mind either is fine. Free Movement is also very huge. Power level seems right for 4 year, 5 star transmute either way in my opinion.

My concern is not what it does but where it does it. The bead slot is a new slot right now we only have 3 option for that slot and depending on what you think you might face any of the 3 could be used, more likely Rare or Uncommon...now you introduce this token and it is clearly best in slot by a wide margin. It essentially boasts all Nightmare and most Hardcore groups saves up by +2 (+3) across the board and becomes the obvious and most logical choice for Free movement...thus invalidating the following potential choices all NM and HC groups have had to decide on:

Amulet of the Wind
Boots of Free Action
Boots of Marauder
Defender Set
Earcuff of Freedom
Pantaloons of the Underdark (and Deeperdark)

Seems like making this a bead, so early in the bead slots existence, really limits the bead slot development going forward and increases the overall power level of all builds. I think this really should be a Hand , finger, head or maybe even Ioun stone.

Don't say Ioun Stone around here - you'll get mugged by the crowd.


P.S. I think this token fits much better in the defensive oriented Ioun slot, that is well established as giving saves, and also gives Free Movement, and has redundancy allowing many options than the brand new, still finding an identity, non-redundant bead slot.

The more I think about it, the more I like my middle suggestion. Want to reword it:

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +4 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +2 DEX, +4 CON

I would also be satisfied with

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +4 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON

The reason I like these is because they fit the theme of the kilts; choose one stat to boost and get side-effects on the other two. Only at the Eldritch level, the boost is a bit smaller, and the side effect is a lesser positive instead of a negative.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'

It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think

does not work. that would aallow you to use it with 2 IS Nuggets. or worse all TE UR’s.

Hmm, interesting point. However, would that be a problem? It still wouldn't raise the treasure cap since it doesn't stack with the coa, and it wouldnt ever discourage buying a new purple te.

There are some who still use the pieces rather than the CoA, so it could raise the cap.

James J Krot wrote:

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote: I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back.

Which Exalted does the Rare Bead transmute into, is it the Lucky Traveler?

I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back as well, it seems to be going backwards to me.

Agreed. I'd rather take +1 on the modifier than +5 to HP.

The problem is +5 was to powerful +4 with hp is the most sane compromise.

Except for Clerics......

Well I play clerics I get what you are saying, it just was clear to me that we were not getting a +6 for stats. I am still keeping some of the regular kilts around but I have to take a serious look at my builds now.

Figurine of Power: Dog

I do like more FoPs in the game at lower rarities. Fine.

Canteen of Quaffing

Fine.

Belt of Ogre Mage Power

Fine. Kind of meh in what it does, but the name is more interesting.

Charm of Treasure Finding

Good intentions at satisfying greed [uh] make this a wording mess. It's so much simpler to just make it +2 chips not usable with anything else. I'm not going to be worried that rare level players aren't going to buy up Gold Nuggets, I'm really not. TEs are just so ridiculous that I look forward to the "Redeem your CoA for the new purple backed version that gives +2 Saves and Free Movement as we decided all TEs need to go away as being a long term problem and we can now make the treasure chests awesome again." post.

Enchanter's Whetstone

If URs are just +1/+1 over rares, that's kind of a problem with URs. More Deathcleavers for everyone! I think it's interesting and I guess I like the restriction to only rares over buffing commons and uncommons.

Bead of the Lucky Traveler

Put me in a more extreme bead camp even than others like Rob. I didn't see any reason for a bead slot to begin with. Talk about power jumps in the game. More slots creates more power, too, even if the effects are see invisible. Recent newer slots have gotten massive power jumps and that is part of the endless Kilt argument. It's not +6 from the ... wait, see below.

So, I mostly don't care as I expect crazy power jumps for new slots, but I also see "conditional ability, conditional ability, conditional ability, oh, core ability plus frequently desired ability" as a scary jump.

Kilt of Dungeonbane

Is the art cool now? Ok. Good. Nothing left to talk about.

It's not +6 from Eldritch token that bothers me. It's that every slot that gains stat bumps makes the numbers get further and further out of control. For the mostly rare level player, I wouldn't care at all about +6 STR and Eldritch (though, to be fair, rare level is getting out of control with STR adds, too, so, for the mostly uncommon level player, I don't mind +6 STR). That would be cool. The only idea I really hate is +2/+2/+2. Otherwise, carry on with whatever.

Lute of Free Fury

As with UR comment, I'm not going to freak out if it were +1/+2, but I would totally want this as is.

Necklace of the Sneak

No idea. The name, though, is very uninspiring. I realize rogue <> thief, but there are plenty of cooler names available.

Shaman's Greater Necklace

Okay, the argument put out that a build up to Legendary for one class such that there won't be a lot of other options at lofty heights should involve being cool for everyone and not just funky builds does hit a nerve. In isolation, cool polymorph stuff sounds like cool thing to do. In the context that a non-polymorphing druid, like, I don't know, my friend who plays druid all of the time, doesn't get any meaningful benefit sounds like a missed opportunity. Now, may be wondering why mention this at relic level, um not everyone makes or acquires legendaries, so it matters even at this level.

I think it's too late to worry about, though. Maybe druids who are struggling to compete with other classes at like anything will get more love in other ways that aren't polymorph oriented in 2020.

Widseth's Legendary Lute

I don't know that I mind that this just massively upgrades bard power levels at the level where someone owns the legendary. If you are going to come at the king, might as well autohit him in the eye. Sure, set the top level standard forever for what bards can do with bardsong.

Nightshade's Necklace.

Or, whatever it's called.

Iktomi's Shaper Necklace

See above. Sure, being able to cast spells is interesting because the casual polymorpher, which I'm sure there are tons of (who have a legendary, I'm sure there are tons more of) can be spell Focused and just polymorph for weird abilities. Except, the elementals don't have all that much in weird abilities, so I guess that isn't all that. Anyway, it's certainly interesting in isolation.

Arnold wrote: How are high level players getting Free Movement?

I wish folks weren't lobbying to strip it from from the bead.

If you think it's not thematic, I'll just point to the Defender Set. Heavy Armor with free movement, go figure.

Then again, what's thematic about a bead giving you saves?

I haven't been lobbying for free movement because I've been assuming it will stay. It is something I like about this token.

High level players get free movement from:

1. Pantaloons of the Deeperdark/Underdark.
2. Defender set.
3. Boots of the Marauder.

#1 and #3 are under serious slot pressure, so I imagine the number of people with free movement at top end of Normal and Hardcore probably exceeds people with it at Nightmare.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

David Harris wrote: Thoughts on the Bead -

Most of the debate has been on +2 or +3, in my mind either is fine. Free Movement is also very huge. Power level seems right for 4 year, 5 star transmute either way in my opinion.

My concern is not what it does but where it does it. The bead slot is a new slot right now we only have 3 option for that slot and depending on what you think you might face any of the 3 could be used, more likely Rare or Uncommon...now you introduce this token and it is clearly best in slot by a wide margin. It essentially boasts all Nightmare and most Hardcore groups saves up by +2 (+3) across the board and becomes the obvious and most logical choice for Free movement...thus invalidating the following potential choices all NM and HC groups have had to decide on:

Amulet of the Wind
Boots of Free Action
Boots of Marauder
Defender Set
Earcuff of Freedom
Pantaloons of the Underdark (and Deeperdark)

Seems like making this a bead, so early in the bead slots existence, really limits the bead slot development going forward and increases the overall power level of all builds. I think this really should be a Hand , finger, head or maybe even Ioun stone.

Don't say Ioun Stone around here - you'll get mugged by the crowd.


P.S. I think this token fits much better in the well established defensive, multi slot Ioun stone slot too than the nascent, could be anything, single slot bead.

Because in the not too distant future we will be devoting 3 IS slots to Treasure Enhancers. Now if the thought that they will never be combined in a transmute changed, i'd be just fine with moving Saves and Free Movement to the IS slot.

Remember that we got 3 consecutive years of volunteer tokens in the IS slot. Making it harder to use them is not exactly volunteer friendly.

Xavon wrote: The more I think about it, the more I like my middle suggestion. Want to reword it:

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +4 DEX, +2 CON
OR
+2 STR, +2 DEX, +4 CON

I would also be satisfied with

Kilt of Dungeonbane
Choose one at start:
+4 STR, +1 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +4 DEX, +1 CON
OR
+1 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON

The reason I like these is because they fit the theme of the kilts; choose one stat to boost and get side-effects on the other two. Only at the Eldritch level, the boost is a bit smaller, and the side effect is a lesser positive instead of a negative.

And none of that helps me either

Harlax wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

David Harris wrote: Thoughts on the Bead -

Most of the debate has been on +2 or +3, in my mind either is fine. Free Movement is also very huge. Power level seems right for 4 year, 5 star transmute either way in my opinion.

My concern is not what it does but where it does it. The bead slot is a new slot right now we only have 3 option for that slot and depending on what you think you might face any of the 3 could be used, more likely Rare or Uncommon...now you introduce this token and it is clearly best in slot by a wide margin. It essentially boasts all Nightmare and most Hardcore groups saves up by +2 (+3) across the board and becomes the obvious and most logical choice for Free movement...thus invalidating the following potential choices all NM and HC groups have had to decide on:

Amulet of the Wind
Boots of Free Action
Boots of Marauder
Defender Set
Earcuff of Freedom
Pantaloons of the Underdark (and Deeperdark)

Seems like making this a bead, so early in the bead slots existence, really limits the bead slot development going forward and increases the overall power level of all builds. I think this really should be a Hand , finger, head or maybe even Ioun stone.

Don't say Ioun Stone around here - you'll get mugged by the crowd.


P.S. I think this token fits much better in the well established defensive, multi slot Ioun stone slot too than the nascent, could be anything, single slot bead.

Because in the not too distant future we will be devoting 3 IS slots to Treasure Enhancers. Now if the thought that they will never be combined in a transmute changed, i'd be just fine with moving Saves and Free Movement to the IS slot.

Remember that we got 3 consecutive years of volunteer tokens in the IS slot. Making it harder to use them is not exactly volunteer friendly.

And when you're done with 3 TE Iouns you'll still have 2-4 Ioun slots to choose between as opposed to 1 bead.

If we can't print tokens that put pressure on volunteer slots we've lost Ioun, Neck, and Charm as well, and over time we'll lose more and more.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Endgame wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Cranston wrote: I tried to stay away from any comments relative to trying to incorporate tokens into apps, but the latest change for the Charm of Treasure Finding just needs to be talked about. 3 new Treasure Enhancing tokens this year. Some play with others, while some do not. Now this one works with some others while not playing with some others.

Ok, as far as I can figure it, the Charm of Treasure Finding works with any of the UR Ioun Stones (Nugget collection) It does not work with any of the Rare Treasure Enhancers, as they do not work with anything else. The Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with CoA, but will work with any of the tokens that make up CoA, so Amulet of Treasure Finding or Ring of Riches, or Horn of Plenty or Charm of Good Fortune, but not all at the same time.

Note that it is not that the Charm of Treasure Finding does not work with Cloak of Many Pockets, but the Cloak of Many Pockets does not work with the Charm of Treasure Finding. (relates to Lenses of Focus and Crown of Treasure Finding also)

Also consider the bonus for a 6th level player, commonly defined as the Badge of Nobility, or Medallion of Nobility. I believe that these do not count relative to the Cloak of Many Pockets, and similar Rares, but do they count as the "one" Treasure Enhancer?

I really prefer this as it was originally, with 'Not Useable with any other Treasure Enhancing Tokens'

It is actually intended to be used with the +1 Rare TE tokens, as well as all UR TE Tokens. Some sort of errata will have to be added to the +1 Rare TE Tokens to allow this. Or, the Rare TE Token from this year could have the wording altered specifically allowing stacking only with Charm of Treasure Finding, and it would stack with this year's Rare and not past year rares.

Probably best phrased like :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1. Cannot be used with coa.

This phrasing does not conflict with the rare TEs, I think

does not work. that would aallow you to use it with 2 IS Nuggets. or worse all TE UR’s.

Hmm, interesting point. However, would that be a problem? It still wouldn't raise the treasure cap since it doesn't stack with the coa, and it wouldnt ever discourage buying a new purple te.

There are some who still use the pieces rather than the CoA, so it could raise the cap.

Ah. Trying to figure out how to phrase it while still fitting on the token. How about :

Increase the treasure of a token by 1, limit max treasure 10.

No need to mention the coa, and could still be used with all of the upcoming ioun stones so as to encourage UR TE purchases.

Xavon wrote:

James J Krot wrote:

Starkhound (Edwin) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Xavon wrote: I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back.

Which Exalted does the Rare Bead transmute into, is it the Lucky Traveler?

I'd rather have the +5 Kilt back as well, it seems to be going backwards to me.

Agreed. I'd rather take +1 on the modifier than +5 to HP.

The problem is +5 was to powerful +4 with hp is the most sane compromise.

I fail to see how getting an additional +1 bonus to a attribute of choice, if you arrange your full set of boosts to land on even, is that much better than getting half (or 2/3s) of the bonus to one of the three attributes regardless.

To Brad's point +1 on DEX makes the difference for the Clerics that are trying to wield the hammer that had been using Fatherbane. It may not seem like a lot, but on the year of the cleric purge with nerf of the LODS, the eldritch set bonus, even the wand change, this particular 5 on DEX potential allowed for a competitive edge.