TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images !!

If I wasn’t a Cleric trying to wield Thor’s, maybe not. I don’t make many relics in general.

Last year was an exception because... well, you know

But a token that takes three URs to make is bigger than a relic. This one isn’t quite a legendary, cost-wise.

Alright, time to break out the crazy person negotiation tactics tactics:

How about as a compromise, we just make it +7 to any one attribute? I mean, that's good for everyone, and it is an Eldritch transmute, so it should be at least a little better than the source item(s), right?

It would be kind of funny if we continued these discussions well past the point where Jeff has sent the token artwork to the printers.

Xavon wrote: Alright, time to break out the crazy person negotiation tactics tactics:

How about as a compromise, we just make it +7 to any one attribute? I mean, that's good for everyone, and it is an Eldritch transmute, so it should be at least a little better than the source item(s), right?

The Redoubt relics became better just by removing the negatives. AC didn’t go up

One more thing: the legendary lute needs hand symbols.

So I just wanted to "run the numbers" for Brad's case (wanting DEX). This is just my opinion and I see it as this:

The Transmuted Kilt (as proposed) gives +4 DEX to it (still need 2) and +5 HP. Has to give up another slot (say Charm for Vicious) which would be -2 STR.

This means -2 STR (-1 to hit/damage), +5 HP, +2 Healing (Eldritch), +1 damage (Eldritch), -1/2 level, -1 slot (Charm)

If he were to wear the original Kilt (+6 DEX, -2 STR/-2 CON)

Then it comes out as -2 DEX, -2 CON, -2 Healing (no Eldritch), -1 damage (no Eldritch), -1/2 level, no slot taken

If there were a +6 non-Eldritch Kilt transmute it would look like:

-2 Healing (no Eldritch), -1 damage (no Eldritch), -1/2 level, no slot taken


If the Kilt gets printed as is then it is a question is a charm slot (or similar slot) worth +2 healing, +1 damage, +1/2 level. In my mind it is but that is just me.

Is it worth to have a non-Eldritch +6 kilt without any negatives. Again, in my mind, no. The bonus of the Eldritch is strong.

Ed

MasterED wrote: So I just wanted to "run the numbers" for Brad's case (wanting DEX). This is just my opinion and I see it as this:

The Transmuted Kilt (as proposed) gives +4 DEX to it (still need 2) and +5 HP. Has to give up another slot (say Charm for Vicious) which would be -2 STR.

This means -2 STR (-1 to hit/damage), +5 HP, +2 Healing (Eldritch), +1 damage (Eldritch), -1/2 level, -1 slot (Charm)

If he were to wear the original Kilt (+6 DEX, -2 STR/-2 CON)

Then it comes out as -2 DEX, -2 CON, -2 Healing (no Eldritch), -1 damage (no Eldritch), -1/2 level, no slot taken

If there were a +6 non-Eldritch Kilt transmute it would look like:

-2 Healing (no Eldritch), -1 damage (no Eldritch), -1/2 level, no slot taken


If the Kilt gets printed as is then it is a question is a charm slot (or similar slot) worth +2 healing, +1 damage, +1/2 level. In my mind it is but that is just me.

Is it worth to have a non-Eldritch +6 kilt without any negatives. Again, in my mind, no. The bonus of the Eldritch is strong.

Ed

Those Eldritch bonuses depend of course on you having at least one other Eldritch Token. If this is your only one, you get none of those bonuses.

MasterED wrote: I am curious to the people that would prefer the transmuted Kilt to be your choice of +6 STR / +6 DEX / +6 CON over the existing draft of +4 STAT and +5 hp...

Would you still like it if the transmute was NOT going to be part of the Eldritch set and just a +6 Relic? Would you still make it?

Ed

YES.

Unless you only have exactly one Eldritch set, the set bonus isn't that great for adding the kilt.

The +2 additional STR is strictly better than the 3+ item set bonus for melee types.

The +2 DEX bonus is about the same for range types (+1 to hit, AC, and Reflex vs +1 damage is arguable base on how you slide and how often you get attacked)

The +2 CON bonus might be slightly worse for HP banking characters (+1 FORT vs +1 damage).

Clerics/Druids also get the +2 healing, which is not as widely available and is greater than the +1 to damage.

If Jeff were to come down and say "okay you can have the 4 + HP version with the set bonus, or a 6 version without it". I would vote for the first version, but only to avoid the lynching and riots that would follow.

Mike Steele wrote: Those Eldritch bonuses depend of course on you having at least one other Eldritch Token. If this is your only one, you get none of those bonuses.

I think you missed the first sentence:

So I just wanted to "run the numbers" for Brad's case (wanting DEX).

Brad does have at least 1 other Eldritch item.

Ed

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Xavon wrote: Alright, time to break out the crazy person negotiation tactics tactics:

How about as a compromise, we just make it +7 to any one attribute? I mean, that's good for everyone, and it is an Eldritch transmute, so it should be at least a little better than the source item(s), right?

The Redoubt relics became better just by removing the negatives. AC didn’t go up

Those are plain relics, not Eldritch Relics.

But I see your point. +8 to any one attribute it is.

MasterED wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Those Eldritch bonuses depend of course on you having at least one other Eldritch Token. If this is your only one, you get none of those bonuses.

I think you missed the first sentence:

So I just wanted to "run the numbers" for Brad's case (wanting DEX).

Brad does have at least 1 other Eldritch item.

Ed

Good point. But the added Eldritch bonuses have been mentioned numerous times as to one reason why it's OK for the transmuted token to be weaker, and I wanted to point out that there will be a lot of people getting this that won't have a second Eldritch item and won't get any of those bonuses.

Mike Steele wrote: It would be kind of funny if we continued these discussions well past the point where Jeff has sent the token artwork to the printers.

I'm relatively certain this particular conversation will restart roughly once or twice per year for the next 3 or 4 years.