TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images !!

Fiddy wrote: I'm going to toss this out again, since I saw no responses, good or bad.

Fiddy wrote: I know we're trying to avoid a penalty on the Kilt transmute, but would the following work:

Pick from +6/+6/+6 but take -1 to melee and ranged damage. (Or -1 to melee and ranged to-hit)

Interesting idea of how to adjust the kilt here.

I dont think people will like new negatives to an item, particularly ones they would have a harder time avoiding. Some would like it better, I think most would not.

I know I would rather see it at +4 with no drawbacks at all rather than with a new one. Clerics and Wizards would probably like your solution.

If this is the way we choose to go, I will make them, just like I would have done otherwise.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote: Once again advocating for Matt's 4/6/6 solution. It would help keep strength craziness in check on an as yet unreleased item. Not case any meaningful gful power creep. Make the chatacter builders programming easier. Keep clerics happier, and the token text would feel less patched out of the gate. All while still fitting of pattern of being "better" or at least equal to the sum of its parts.

More importantly though it would "feel" better since you wouldn't see a 6UR going down to 4eldritched and IMO that would sell more tokens. I know for myself at least the 4/6/6 solution would result in my group buying at least 4 more URs this year to finish our kilts, as were probably just going to keep our UR kilts because capital investment is also something that needs to be considered when making high end items.

Except that you would see the +6 St UR going down to +4 St Eldritch. Unless the UR Kilt is downgraded equally, which is still possible this year. I think the bonus on the Eldritch Kilt for each attribute should be equal to the bonus on each attribute for the UR Kilts, for the reasons you stated. So for the most part we're in agreement.

There is an easy fix to that "problem"
Make the UR strength kilt +4 Str/-2Dex/-2Con

That would allow the Eld Kilt to be better than each individual kilt, and continue the trend established with Redoubt.

We haven't printed the +6 Str kilt, and we probably shouldn't.

That still only makes it better for two out of three. But I agree, tweaking down Barrelbane makes lots of sense

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote: Once again advocating for Matt's 4/6/6 solution. It would help keep strength craziness in check on an as yet unreleased item. Not case any meaningful gful power creep. Make the chatacter builders programming easier. Keep clerics happier, and the token text would feel less patched out of the gate. All while still fitting of pattern of being "better" or at least equal to the sum of its parts.

More importantly though it would "feel" better since you wouldn't see a 6UR going down to 4eldritched and IMO that would sell more tokens. I know for myself at least the 4/6/6 solution would result in my group buying at least 4 more URs this year to finish our kilts, as were probably just going to keep our UR kilts because capital investment is also something that needs to be considered when making high end items.

Except that you would see the +6 St UR going down to +4 St Eldritch. Unless the UR Kilt is downgraded equally, which is still possible this year. I think the bonus on the Eldritch Kilt for each attribute should be equal to the bonus on each attribute for the UR Kilts, for the reasons you stated. So for the most part we're in agreement.

There is an easy fix to that "problem"
Make the UR strength kilt +4 Str/-2Dex/-2Con

That would allow the Eld Kilt to be better than each individual kilt, and continue the trend established with Redoubt.

We haven't printed the +6 Str kilt, and we probably shouldn't.

That still only makes it better for two out of three.

True, I think the Eldritch Kilt should be +4 or +5 St (Based on what the UR Kilt is), +6 Dex, or +6 Con.

To be honest, I'd also be OK with +4 to any two of St, DX, or Con, but I know that still doesn't solve the Min/Max issue. I'd be pretty happy with +4 to all three.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote: Once again advocating for Matt's 4/6/6 solution. It would help keep strength craziness in check on an as yet unreleased item. Not case any meaningful gful power creep. Make the chatacter builders programming easier. Keep clerics happier, and the token text would feel less patched out of the gate. All while still fitting of pattern of being "better" or at least equal to the sum of its parts.

More importantly though it would "feel" better since you wouldn't see a 6UR going down to 4eldritched and IMO that would sell more tokens. I know for myself at least the 4/6/6 solution would result in my group buying at least 4 more URs this year to finish our kilts, as were probably just going to keep our UR kilts because capital investment is also something that needs to be considered when making high end items.

Except that you would see the +6 St UR going down to +4 St Eldritch. Unless the UR Kilt is downgraded equally, which is still possible this year. I think the bonus on the Eldritch Kilt for each attribute should be equal to the bonus on each attribute for the UR Kilts, for the reasons you stated. So for the most part we're in agreement.

There is an easy fix to that "problem"
Make the UR strength kilt +4 Str/-2Dex/-2Con

That would allow the Eld Kilt to be better than each individual kilt, and continue the trend established with Redoubt.

We haven't printed the +6 Str kilt, and we probably shouldn't.

That still only makes it better for two out of three. But I agree, tweaking down Barrelbane makes lots of sense

I disagree. I think getting rid of the minuses for the eldritch kilt makes it better than the UR, and the proposed solution, along with a change to this year's UR kilt does it for all 3.

Am I misunderstanding your position?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote: Once again advocating for Matt's 4/6/6 solution. It would help keep strength craziness in check on an as yet unreleased item. Not case any meaningful gful power creep. Make the chatacter builders programming easier. Keep clerics happier, and the token text would feel less patched out of the gate. All while still fitting of pattern of being "better" or at least equal to the sum of its parts.

More importantly though it would "feel" better since you wouldn't see a 6UR going down to 4eldritched and IMO that would sell more tokens. I know for myself at least the 4/6/6 solution would result in my group buying at least 4 more URs this year to finish our kilts, as were probably just going to keep our UR kilts because capital investment is also something that needs to be considered when making high end items.

Except that you would see the +6 St UR going down to +4 St Eldritch. Unless the UR Kilt is downgraded equally, which is still possible this year. I think the bonus on the Eldritch Kilt for each attribute should be equal to the bonus on each attribute for the UR Kilts, for the reasons you stated. So for the most part we're in agreement.

There is an easy fix to that "problem"
Make the UR strength kilt +4 Str/-2Dex/-2Con

That would allow the Eld Kilt to be better than each individual kilt, and continue the trend established with Redoubt.

We haven't printed the +6 Str kilt, and we probably shouldn't.

That still only makes it better for two out of three. But I agree, tweaking down Barrelbane makes lots of sense

I disagree. I think getting rid of the minuses for the eldritch kilt makes it better than the UR, and the proposed solution, along with a change to this year's UR kilt does it for all 3.

Am I misunderstanding your position?

I think Brad is referring to the current +4 / +4 / +4 Kilt.

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Picc wrote: Once again advocating for Matt's 4/6/6 solution. It would help keep strength craziness in check on an as yet unreleased item. Not case any meaningful gful power creep. Make the chatacter builders programming easier. Keep clerics happier, and the token text would feel less patched out of the gate. All while still fitting of pattern of being "better" or at least equal to the sum of its parts.

More importantly though it would "feel" better since you wouldn't see a 6UR going down to 4eldritched and IMO that would sell more tokens. I know for myself at least the 4/6/6 solution would result in my group buying at least 4 more URs this year to finish our kilts, as were probably just going to keep our UR kilts because capital investment is also something that needs to be considered when making high end items.

Except that you would see the +6 St UR going down to +4 St Eldritch. Unless the UR Kilt is downgraded equally, which is still possible this year. I think the bonus on the Eldritch Kilt for each attribute should be equal to the bonus on each attribute for the UR Kilts, for the reasons you stated. So for the most part we're in agreement.

There is an easy fix to that "problem"
Make the UR strength kilt +4 Str/-2Dex/-2Con

That would allow the Eld Kilt to be better than each individual kilt, and continue the trend established with Redoubt.

We haven't printed the +6 Str kilt, and we probably shouldn't.

That still only makes it better for two out of three. But I agree, tweaking down Barrelbane makes lots of sense

I disagree. I think getting rid of the minuses for the eldritch kilt makes it better than the UR, and the proposed solution, along with a change to this year's UR kilt does it for all 3.

Am I misunderstanding your position?

I think Brad is referring to the current +4 / +4 / +4 Kilt.

There are so many Kilts flying around, it’s like a Scottish orgy...

If Barrel was +4/-2/-2 as you suggest, and

If the EK was +4/+6/+6

Then yes, I agree(?) it’s clearly better than all three

But, if EK were +4/+4/+4 and 5HP then, IMO, it is better than everything except the DEX Kilt, although some other DEX-users might find it acceptable.

I advocate the solution where the Barrelbane is scaled back to +4/-2/-2 and Eldritch Kilt is choose +4/+6/+6 add 5 hp or not.

Also, regarding Thor's Hammer -- clerics should definitely be able to use it. But it's "Thor's Hammer!!!" only the most heroic of Clerics should be able wield the mighty weapon. My way of saying please don't errata it.

David Harris wrote: I advocate the solution where the Barrelbane is scaled back to +4/-2/-2 and Eldritch Kilt is choose +4/+6/+6 add 5 hp or not.

Also, regarding Thor's Hammer -- clerics should definitely be able to use it. But it's "Thor's Hammer!!!" only the most heroic of Clerics should be able wield the mighty weapon. My way of saying please don't errata it.

I agree, although I'd still prefer St at +5 instead of +4.

David Harris wrote: I advocate the solution where the Barrelbane is scaled back to +4/-2/-2 and Eldritch Kilt is choose +4/+6/+6 add 5 hp or not.

Also, regarding Thor's Hammer -- clerics should definitely be able to use it. But it's "Thor's Hammer!!!" only the most heroic of Clerics should be able wield the mighty weapon. My way of saying please don't errata it.

I'd rather errata it than force more power creep to fix it.

I am curious to the people that would prefer the transmuted Kilt to be your choice of +6 STR / +6 DEX / +6 CON over the existing draft of +4 STAT and +5 hp...

Would you still like it if the transmute was NOT going to be part of the Eldritch set and just a +6 Relic? Would you still make it?

Ed

MasterED wrote: I am curious to the people that would prefer the transmuted Kilt to be your choice of +6 STR / +6 DEX / +6 CON over the existing draft of +4 STAT and +5 hp...

Would you still like it if the transmute was NOT going to be part of the Eldritch set and just a +6 Relic? Would you still make it?

Ed

Not sure anyone wants it +6 STR at this point

But for me, +6 DEX so I only need Rod and one other token to get to 20? Probably

Especially since the “heroic” (using David’s word) Rogues can get to 20 DEX with a single uncommon.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

MasterED wrote: I am curious to the people that would prefer the transmuted Kilt to be your choice of +6 STR / +6 DEX / +6 CON over the existing draft of +4 STAT and +5 hp...

Would you still like it if the transmute was NOT going to be part of the Eldritch set and just a +6 Relic? Would you still make it?

Ed

Not sure anyone wants it +6 STR at this point

But for me, +6 DEX so I only need Rod and one other token to get to 20? Probably

Especially since the “heroic” (using David’s word) Rogues can get to 20 DEX with a single uncommon.

Brad so you would make the non-Eldritch one just for the +6 DEX then?

Ed