TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images!

MasterED wrote: So if you had to pick just one of these for the Transmuted Eldritch Kilt power - which would you choose (assuming you were going to transmute one)?

• +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON
• +5HP and (+4 STR or +4 DEX or +4 CON)
• +5 STR or +5 DEX or +5 CON

Ed

2

(Although from a coaching perspective 1 would be easier to manage. )

Ian Lee wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: So ... lower the UR this year to +5 STR, and make the transmute +5 St or +6 Dex or +6 Con.

Easy Peasy.

Tavernbane is OP to me, but the ship has sailed. Fatherbane doesn't bother me at all.

My preference along Mike's lines would be:

Barrelbane
+4 Str, -2 Con

Eldritch
+4 Str or +6 Dex or +6 Con

Might have been nice to not have legs slot be a massive stat booster after earlier legs were much more modest in effect. Might have been nice if they had to be stat boosters to have them all be +4/-2 so that no one would feel put out if the Eldritch topped out at +4, but that ship has sailed.

Would also be nice to stop making STR enhancers at the UR level up that are not reprints or functional reprints as I don't mind Dex 60 builds (my Dex 52 build was not what I consider good enough for HC play), but having to hit and damage key off the same thing is a fundamental problem in games where other attributes don't add to both.

Do you think +5 St is really overpowered? That's equal to the Relic Frost Giant Girdle, which seems like a pretty reasonable comparison for an Eldritch transmuted token.

Raven wrote:

Phil Norton wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: On the other hand, I really like free movement on the bead - many folks are losing free movement from the pants slot with the kilt, and it is thematic (to pursue the mind flayer we had to chase it through the under and deeper dark and then through several planes).

+1

I liked it with the 3 but am fine with 2, but definitely want the free movement as that goes with the whole lucky traveler motif.

Another +1 to keeping Free Movement on the Bead. it's thematic (and timely, as many folks loose their free movement to the Kilt)

And if I didn't say it before: the bead artwork is fantastic! Love it.

+1

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote: So if you had to pick just one of these for the Transmuted Eldritch Kilt power - which would you choose (assuming you were going to transmute one)?

• +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON
• +5HP and (+4 STR or +4 DEX or +4 CON)
• +5 STR or +5 DEX or +5 CON

Ed

If I had to pick one of those I would pick +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON since it results in the largest net increase to stats, but I doubt I'd pickup any anymore kits to transmute it at all to be honest.


Though I think Matt nailed it the other day when he suggested lowering the UR str kilt to +4 and making the eldritched Choose 1: +4str or +6Dex or +6Con

I think those options are pretty good.
I'm afraid the Wizarding Con Contingent would be engaged further, though.

The Matthew barrel bane nerf feels like it's what is best for the game. But I'm not sure our fighters and barbarians have been as vocal as the rest.

MasterED wrote: So if you had to pick just one of these for the Transmuted Eldritch Kilt power - which would you choose (assuming you were going to transmute one)?

• +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON
• +5HP and (+4 STR or +4 DEX or +4 CON)
• +5 STR or +5 DEX or +5 CON

Ed

#3 since it is as close to the original bonus that the kilts give.

Arnold wrote:

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote: So if you had to pick just one of these for the Transmuted Eldritch Kilt power - which would you choose (assuming you were going to transmute one)?

• +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON
• +5HP and (+4 STR or +4 DEX or +4 CON)
• +5 STR or +5 DEX or +5 CON

Ed

If I had to pick one of those I would pick +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON since it results in the largest net increase to stats, but I doubt I'd pickup any anymore kits to transmute it at all to be honest.


Though I think Matt nailed it the other day when he suggested lowering the UR str kilt to +4 and making the eldritched Choose 1: +4str or +6Dex or +6Con

I think those options are pretty good.
I'm afraid the Wizarding Con Contingent would be engaged further, though.

The Matthew barrel bane nerf feels like it's what is best for the game. But I'm not sure our fighters and barbarians have been as vocal as the rest.

My personal preference: Matt’s 4/6/6, then #3. #2 third, and #1 dead last

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Picc wrote:

MasterED wrote: So if you had to pick just one of these for the Transmuted Eldritch Kilt power - which would you choose (assuming you were going to transmute one)?

• +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON
• +5HP and (+4 STR or +4 DEX or +4 CON)
• +5 STR or +5 DEX or +5 CON

Ed

If I had to pick one of those I would pick +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON since it results in the largest net increase to stats, but I doubt I'd pickup any anymore kits to transmute it at all to be honest.


Though I think Matt nailed it the other day when he suggested lowering the UR str kilt to +4 and making the eldritched Choose 1: +4str or +6Dex or +6Con

I think those options are pretty good.
I'm afraid the Wizarding Con Contingent would be engaged further, though.

The Matthew barrel bane nerf feels like it's what is best for the game. But I'm not sure our fighters and barbarians have been as vocal as the rest.

My personal preference: Matt’s 4/6/6, then #3. #2 third, and #1 dead last

IMO the best thing about Matt’s 4/6/6 is that the STR kilt was never promissed to be +6 Str and no one has it yet. We're not going back on or changing anything, just heading off a problem before it happens. Maybe it could even be just +4 str modeled on the mithral gauntlets, which are still frequently requested for reprint.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I don't buy that this Eldritch Kilt is somehow broken at +6 to an attribute, but the Relic robe is fine at +7 Dex PLUS +3 Int. Based on that, even +7 should be within reason for the Kilt.

How would you feel about a Relic robe or belt that was +7 STR and +3 WIS?

I think it would clearly be overpowered.

Not all stats are the same value, as anyone who has ever equipped Fiendish Charm knows (expend a charm slot for net 0 benefit??? No - expend a charm slot for a STR boost with is +++better than a con loss).

So ... lower the UR this year to +5 STR, and make the transmute +5 St or +6 Dex or +6 Con.

Easy Peasy.

I agree - I think that would be a fine solution, although I'd be happier with 4 or 6 or 6 with the 4 on STR.

I think one challenge in this argument is we have people saying:


+5 is Too Much!
No, +5 is not enough!

But they are talking about different stats.

The problem with hitting a happy medium on this token seems to be:

a. Some people had supremely overblown expectations of what it would be, e.g. +6 to all three.

b. Since STR > DEX > CON it's hard to find one number that everyone can agree to.


Looking at the underlying items, you can clearly see STR is better:

K: St Dx Cn
T: +0 -4 +6
F: -2 +6 -2
B: +6 -3 -3

That Barrebane have -6 in drawbacks instead of 4 isn't an accident - and in fact no one on the UR thread was upset about it, which shows they understand STR is the premium stat.

If we assume each point of STR, DEX, CON are worth a certain number of "build points" and all the kilts add up to the same number of 'build points" BP then we can solve the system of equations and get:

STR = 41*BP/54
DEX = 33*BP/54
CON = 31*BP/54

Treating these relatively, we can convert between the points:

1 STR = 41/33 DEX
1 STR = 41/31 CON
1 DEX = 33/31 CON

So: final Kilt:

+4 STR, or 5 DEX, or 5 CON + 1 HP

Math!

Matthew Hayward wrote: +4 STR, or 5 DEX, or 5 CON + 1 HP

Math!

My issue there is again people are going to see I have a 6 right now, why would I pay to trade it in for a 5.

4/6/6 you got me, I'm happily making 2 everything is consistent.

4/5/5+1HP, I'm going to start arguing feelings again

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: +4 STR, or 5 DEX, or 5 CON + 1 HP

Math!

My issue there is again people are going to see I have a 6 right now, why would I pay to trade it in for a 5.

4/6/6 you got me, I'm happily making 2 everything is consistent.

4/5/5+1HP, I'm going to start arguing feelings again

I was mostly joking about the math.

4/6/6 is fine I believe.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: +4 STR, or 5 DEX, or 5 CON + 1 HP

Math!

My issue there is again people are going to see I have a 6 right now, why would I pay to trade it in for a 5.

4/6/6 you got me, I'm happily making 2 everything is consistent.

4/5/5+1HP, I'm going to start arguing feelings again

I was mostly joking about the math.

4/6/6 is fine I believe.

Then you have my support.

Joshua Long wrote:

MasterED wrote: So if you had to pick just one of these for the Transmuted Eldritch Kilt power - which would you choose (assuming you were going to transmute one)?

• +3 STR and +3 DEX and +3 CON
• +5HP and (+4 STR or +4 DEX or +4 CON)
• +5 STR or +5 DEX or +5 CON

Ed

#3 since it is as close to the original bonus that the kilts give.

+1

The kilts don’t need anything extra since they are 1/2 of a level bump, extra healing, and damage bonus. And +5 without negative feels like a great mix of all three kilts used to create it. You can use it for multiple builds but there is still some thought put into your choice.