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TOPIC: 2019 Transmuted Token Images!

2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #181

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.


+2/+2 and access to all normal actions without losing anything to maintaining bardsong? That has kinda been the suggestion for Bard Legendary tokens for the last 3 years. Are you checking out the full text in relation to the token? It does allow sliding, spells, checks, etc, etc. You basically maintain bardsong for free.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #182

Arnold wrote: I'm just curious-

For everyone that wants +6...

Would you choose +6 to exactly 1 stat? Meaning - you'd either have an Eldritch Strength kilt, Eldritch Dex Kilt, or Eldritch Con kilt. This kilt would give +6 to only that stat ever.

Would you pick that hypothetical over +5 choose before each dungeon?


Hey I'm the first one to answer you.
I would definitely be all in on a +6 to just one stat even printed on the token itself so no option for change. It might encourage others to transmute 3 different ones but I'm really only concerned about one stat.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #183

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.

Just clarifying - You also get to either slide an attack, cast a spell, read a scroll, or activate a wand on your turn while you are singing. You can also use your Free Action to do other activities.

Ed
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #184

(Warning - long!)

I think the issue is less with the +5/+6 for the kilt as it is that the UR versions have allowed that high of a bonus in a typically underwhelming slot.

The con kilt wasn’t earth shattering, but the number shifts definitely play to min maxers.

However, once you start talking dex and str, everything goes haywire.

I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.

But the real crux is that TD has been scaling with more slots and larger bonuses in those slots for the last few years. Pants (IMHO) weren’t meant to be huge stat boosters, but like everything else, that always seems to be the common denominator. Until TD stops driving everything on STR (which drives all the melee classes), it will almost always be the best choice in every slot.

We have ioun stones that add to physical stats, now charms (as of the 2018 volunteer token and I can only assume a 2019 token will likely be +2 dex if we follow the pattern). The bead slot, which was just introduced, might already be getting a relatively large save boost... but I assure you if a + to STR was printed, that is what everyone would switch to.

So what is the fix?

I’d potentially downgrade the UR kilt this year to be +4 STR, -2 dex, -2 con. Yes, it stats wise is a wash, but any min maxer doesn’t care. Make the eldritch a +5, or better, a +4 to any stat with some other benefit (free movement or immune to fear or additional HP). It isn’t okay to just assume people will have other eldritch items because most are oop, multi year tokens, and the only ones still available are the kilt and the teeth... and both require items out of the current window. The eldritch item should be a BiS (barring unique situations like grind/raid), because it’s meant to be an ultra high end set item. It’s meant to be a thank you for multi-year collectors.

There seems to be this weird split between the top tier players and the new ones, and the more slots that get added, or exclusive high end stat boosters that get tossed in means that gap will just continue to grow. Big numbers are great, but at some point that’s why balancing Dungeon difficulty continues to be a problem. It’s why a nightmare+ style Dungeon was requested. And people want to use the tokens they own - hardcore folks might do a mug run/turkey leg run/dagger run, but at the core, if you have a build that approaches the price of a car, you want to be able to take it for a spin.

So I think when token design gets tossed around, the idea of what certain slots should do might need to be outlined more clearly before we all toss out numbers. I’d love a belt that added +20 STR, but I also realize it would break the game. The belt slot has historically been a stat building slot. Not so with the pants, at least initially.

It’s why I’m worried about the bead, and concerned about the greaves. As soon as they start adding to stats, that locks it in for most people.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #185

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Arnold wrote: I'm just curious-

For everyone that wants +6...

Would you choose +6 to exactly 1 stat? Meaning - you'd either have an Eldritch Strength kilt, Eldritch Dex Kilt, or Eldritch Con kilt. This kilt would give +6 to only that stat ever.

Would you pick that hypothetical over +5 choose before each dungeon?


Technically I don't want a +6. I think it needs to be at least +8, spread across two attributes. Or to be +6 with some additional perk. But I'm willing to talk it out.

That said, for +5 or 6, either way, it depends on the build. For my Monk, Paladin, and Fighter builds, +6 STR. For my Ranger and Wizard builds, +6 DEX.
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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #186

Edward Deangelis wrote: I don't really care much about Kilt. I think it's fine. But I am more looking at the lute. I mean it gives +1/+1 Going up to a +2/+2 which and that reroll once per game. But that seems like a whole lot to dump. When I already get a +2 to damage with the UR version. It just seems, like to gain a +2 to hit and then a reroll just for the bard. I don't think what it currently does justifies how much it is going to cost to make.


It also gives you the effects of WIdseth's, Briano's, and Amorgen's instruments, and Lyre of Lore.

It also gives you never before available Bard abilities of drinking potions and using wands while doing Bardsong.


I think +4/+4 to the party with 5th level barsong is flat out amazing.

One bard with 2 tokens (This lute and something to get to 5th level) can join a PuG and turn it into easy mode.

I don't usually craft Legendaries for my non-main classes, but I'll be getting this for sure.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #187

Templar wrote: I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.


Just stealing a small part of your post and saying PLEASE YES to this modification.ESPECIALLY if there are plans to make other stats useful in future updates let's open this up to all stats.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #188

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: So I assume I am alone in this feeling but the Iktomi’s Shaper's Necklace seems REALLY weak as a legendary token in my opinion. It feels a lot more like a relic level token at the legendary level and that the legendary level should add some other benefit. At the neck slot it's a lot to sacrifice given all the other strong items for that slot to gain a damage resistance bonus and access to elemental type for damage, which doesn't apply to spells cast in that form. It's nice for Druids who want to do shapeshifting, it's a cool item for a shifter Druid. Personally I have never encountered a single player who plays a shapeshifter Druid. I assume there are some but most I encounter are spell swapped pure damage or hybird healer caster. Am I just not encountering many druids?


Interesting take - I've been thinking I might pick up druid with this thing.

Hit harder than a Fighter with a +5 weapon, have -10 DR to an element choice in each room, and still cast spells?

Not saying you should like it - but it's got me thinking of polymorphing seriously for the first time since I learned you can't do wands/objects while polymorphed.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #189

MasterED wrote: I posted this in the UR thread:

The CON/DEX UR gave +6/-4 (net 2) the STR gives net 0. I am really surprised TPTB didn't come out with the Kilt as +2 STR / + 2 DEX / +2 CON. That would have been a net 6 which is clearly better than the 4 and 5 that got adjusted.

I am going to keep my +5 for the one I transmute and I am going to hope it doesn't get changed again.

You get my vote for any of the following:

+3 to all three stats
+4 to one stat and +5 HP
+5 to one stat
Or something similar to above that is inventive

Ed


Yup - I also thought this was going to be 2/2/2 and was happy with it (and maybe free movement).

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #190

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Templar wrote: I’m a fan of it being a ‘add +5 to any stat at beginning of adventure’ for the eldritch variant so it can be flexible in the future with other builds when int/wis becomes more important, but I’m okay with it as is.


Just stealing a small part of your post and saying PLEASE YES to this modification.ESPECIALLY if there are plans to make other stats useful in future updates let's open this up to all stats.


Yeah +1 to this - it would be a big misfire in my opinion to lock this to STR/DEX/CON if the other stats are about to become important - unless we're about to enter into another 3 year eldritch cycle that will put a WIS/INT/CHA booster into a new slot that isn't contested at the time the announcement is made.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #191

Bob Chasan wrote:

Arnold wrote: I'm just curious-

For everyone that wants +6...

Would you choose +6 to exactly 1 stat? Meaning - you'd either have an Eldritch Strength kilt, Eldritch Dex Kilt, or Eldritch Con kilt. This kilt would give +6 to only that stat ever.

Would you pick that hypothetical over +5 choose before each dungeon?


Hey I'm the first one to answer you.
I would definitely be all in on a +6 to just one stat even printed on the token itself so no option for change. It might encourage others to transmute 3 different ones but I'm really only concerned about one stat.


Same here.

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2019 Transmuted Token Images! 5 years 6 months ago #192

This Thread doesn't seem to be Pinned when I view it on my browsers...

Also, I'm cross-posting this idea from the UR thread...

A Few People Including myself have offered up the idea of evening out the stat +/-points on the Dungeaonbane to +2 STR / +2 DEX / +2CON or some variation. I Also agree that the Barrelbane should net +2 stat pts. with -2 CON/DEX instead of the current -3.A lot of people are mad about losing +points.

Can I suggest an added level of Flexibility and wackiness if we're keeping the idea of choosing stats to boost... Instead of +5 to one stat of your choice... Allow the kilt to be +6 Point Pool to be used as you see fit among STR/DEX/CON So... if you wanted +6 STR, you can have it, if you want +2 to all 3 you can have that... if you want +3Con, +2Dex, +1Str, you can do that... etc...

EDIT... Allow All Stat Points as previously suggested.
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