TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

I think Sunday would be an awful idea in my opinion to attempt to fit 6 runs in (60 people). I don't know of course but for me I don't even always make it back to the con on Sunday because I have stayed up all night Saturday gaming. If I do go, Sunday is the day I shop the exhibit hall. If you are going to get a deal it will be on Sunday when people don't want to lug stuff back home. Lastly I think Jeff wanted to hightlight (could be mistaken) these runs. Make people wonder how they can get to do them. If you mix in new people runs through the same space it would take away from that highlight aspect. Not saying dual using the area is a bad idea. I actually think it makes a lot of sense. However if you want to highlight these runs it does not.

Picc wrote: Also I wonder if grind could make use of the 4 rooms while the Adventures guild challenge wasn't using them to offset the realestate cost. 4 rooms could make for a really interesting grind.

Brad Mortensen wrote: I was thinking of something like that, Picc. Maybe TD-EasyMode Thur-Sat, then swap things out overnight for the planar runs on Sunday morning?

Great idea! Have the 4 rooms used as a four room grind or a newbie dungeon. The newbie dungeon would have to be different so I would say do the planer dungeon on Thursday and the Newbie dungeon starting first thing on Friday.

Brad Mortensen wrote: I was thinking of something like that, Picc. Maybe TD-EasyMode Thur-Sat, then swap things out overnight for the planar runs on Sunday morning?

I sent Jeff a PM with an idea to reuse the real estate for TD-Easy and planar runs, using the exact same rooms, yet making the planar runs epic AND be able to switch back and fourth on demand.

It does include an additional fixed cost, but the added new player runs would more than pay for it, while still enabling the planar whale runs. (Basically new player runs would help subsidize the whale run in ticket costs.)

Robert Thomson wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: I was thinking of something like that, Picc. Maybe TD-EasyMode Thur-Sat, then swap things out overnight for the planar runs on Sunday morning?

I sent Jeff a PM with an idea to reuse the real estate for TD-Easy and planar runs, using the exact same rooms, yet making the planar runs epic AND be able to switch back and fourth on demand.

It does include an additional fixed cost, but the added new player runs would more than pay for it, while still enabling the planar whale runs. (Basically new player runs would help subsidize the whale run in ticket costs.)

It is a good idea but I would want the "whale" runs to be different and unique. I do like the idea of the DM following you from room to room. Maybe even implement that on the newbie runs. That way they get the specialized care that they need. Each room could have more time allotted to it also.

5 whale runs could be done with 4 or 5 DMs, and you could process them all in two hours. What do you do with that big empty space for the other 13 hours? If it isn't done on Sunday morning then you lose a whole day instead of just half of one. You can't be changing sets with all those hundreds of civilians milling about. If you're willing to waste all that real estate for 60 people for a whole day then it doesn't much matter when you do it, but Thurs would be the next best. Then you only have to redeco one time. Any other time besides the very start or very end means extra work and raises the cost. Or it prevents you from reusing it for a newbie dungeon because no one, not even me, wants the newbies to get the same sets, puzzles or combats as the whales, even if the power level is different. The point of a newbie run is to accommodate new players and, frankly, to repel the more experienced. Otherwise the old hands will buy up all the slots to relive the dungeons from the woodie days and you've accomplished much less you could have.

To beat a dead horse one more time, then I stop - if TD sold 8000 tix with four full dungeons, it would have the capacity (if not the demand) to sell 4000 tix with a half-dungeon. Even at only $20 a ticket that's opportunity cost of $80,000 in gross sales. That's over $1300 in revenue per whale. $44 is nothing compared to that.

So in that context, dedicating the entire space to 60 people is extremely, almost outrageously generous on Jeff's part and I would probably feel guilty about being one of the few who benefitted.

But I don't know the inner workings of TA Ltd. Maybe that's chump change. It seems like a lot to me.

Yeah, that horse needs a few more whacks. Keep going! You can do it!

Brad I know where your comming from BUT its not a totally independant line so while there are some extra costs many can be rolled in.

The entire space is already rented, so how it gets allocated is up to Jeff. If this was just tables that sit empty or a full dungeon the cost of the space is unchanged.

Setting up the space is dependant on how elaborate. Odds are its going to have walls and stuff inside it, even if its just a special place with tables.

Props and stuff. In theory everything that Jeff buys and saves could be reused the costs would be loading and unloading and space on the van.

Setup crew is already setting up the space so this is just an allocation of their time.

As for the rest, yeah no arguments that another token run will cost money. No doubts that trying to find more coaches will cost money. For that I say drop the token costs and only use the per head charge to pay for the added coaches this should reduce ticket cost.

This really doesn't have to cost a ton of money to pull off. It would if it was being setup somewhere else by anyone else but thats not the case.



Don't reuse the space. Keep it special. I would say if you can get the DMs to run it, run it as much as needed. If more than 60 sell.

Brad Mortensen wrote: 5 whale runs could be done with 4 or 5 DMs, and you could process them all in two hours. What do you do with that big empty space for the other 13 hours? If it isn't done on Sunday morning then you lose a whole day instead of just half of one. You can't be changing sets with all those hundreds of civilians milling about. If you're willing to waste all that real estate for 60 people for a whole day then it doesn't much matter when you do it, but Thurs would be the next best. Then you only have to redeco one time. Any other time besides the very start or very end means extra work and raises the cost. Or it prevents you from reusing it for a newbie dungeon because no one, not even me, wants the newbies to get the same sets, puzzles or combats as the whales, even if the power level is different. The point of a newbie run is to accommodate new players and, frankly, to repel the more experienced. Otherwise the old hands will buy up all the slots to relive the dungeons from the woodie days and you've accomplished much less you could have.

I sent Jeff the plans for the secret gnomish haunted house redecoration gadget so that runs could actually be changed on the fly between planar and newb mode.

It's an interesting idea, but with real estate and volunteer limitations, I don't see it working out. We have a very hard time now getting enough volunteers for the regular dungeons.

Number of volunteers was the biggest resource constraint I was wondering about. I wasn't sure if volunteers get turned away, if there are enough, whether they have the skills for certain types of jobs, etc.

If number of volunteers is really a problem, then "we sell out so lets not worry" isn't a good plan. New blood being pulled in is also potential volunteers for future years.

Robert Thomson wrote: I wasn't sure if volunteers get turned away, if there are enough, whether they have the skills for certain types of jobs, etc.

You'd need to ask our awesome Volunteer Coordinator if any volunteers were turned away (I highly doubt it), but I can absolutely positively guarantee no qualified DMs or coaches were turned away. Those positions are very hard to fill.