TOPIC: Another First Timer

I see it as very useful. I believe last year I was at +11/+15 with bardsong going and being able to slide as a monk and just have to get on the creature to hit on Nightmare difficulty is a big bonus. If the board is already bunched up or a crit is sitting there I can slide to the side and still put 30+ damage on the board without affecting people's slides.

I'm likely to be sitting closer to the +3/+5 area, so I likely won't be getting a lot of options of where to slide to. (This has me starting to wonder if I should just build towards spellcasting and avoid sliding altogether...since it sounds like combat could really require big bonuses and equipment. If the gap is really +10 to hit/damage that's huge to overcome.)

No, on normal those kinds of numbers on a good slide would be fine.

On normal you can walk in with the tokens you get to start the adventure and slide decently well and hit monsters with common and uncommon weapons.

In fact their are groups that run naked/dagger runs where they attempt the adventure with only the tokens they open or just a dagger.

Tokens are not required to complete any adventure. They HELP any weapon is better than no weapon.

Also you are not the only one on your team. You contribute to the killing of monsters you don't have to do it all by yourself.

A few things to consider before you write off that +1 save. The party size is 10. Monsters may get 2 attacks, so your odds of being targeted are low. If you are a paladin your odds go up because you can shield. Wizards and Clerics get targeted a lot as they are "useful". Fighters are 'expected' to have a decent AC, but not always tested.

This all means there are many classes that can just about ignore AC.
One thing you can't ignore are saves. More often than not, saves hit the entire party or as many as AC would so it becomes a more useful stat.

As to the specific items you listed,
The potion belt is super cool but only if you have potions to spend.
The goggles of seeing could prove useful but so could a torch so it depends. If combat occurs in darkness it will likely just be played out as a penalty to hit.

On the other hand, I ran both combat dungeons last year and didn't have to make a single saving throw. But nothing tried to hit me either.

Since most of the +1 to all saves stuff is in different slots than the + to hit and damage (not all I know) usually you can do both.

jedibcg wrote: No, on normal those kinds of numbers on a good slide would be fine.

On normal you can walk in with the tokens you get to start the adventure and slide decently well and hit monsters with common and uncommon weapons.

In fact their are groups that run naked/dagger runs where they attempt the adventure with only the tokens they open or just a dagger.

Tokens are not required to complete any adventure. They HELP any weapon is better than no weapon.

Also you are not the only one on your team. You contribute to the killing of monsters you don't have to do it all by yourself.

Very true on normal difficulty a +3/+5 is going to give you a good chance to hit. I would have to check the module for last year but I believe the frost worm from the first adventure had a AC of something like 15 or 16 on normal.

Robert Thomson wrote:

Picc wrote: If I were starting over with tokens I would start with Gauntlets of Ogre Power, Bracers of Fire, Boots of free action, the +1 saves ioun, and the +2 saves cloak. With a few exceptions you will basically use them no matter what class your playing.

Ironically, all of those items were on my first pass of my wishlist. The boots and cloak I actually decided against due to wanting to go with a full wind set. I also am wavering on the +1 saves ioun.

My "base" I'm looking at right now that fits all classes is:
Hat of Readiness
Earcuff of the vale
Earcuff/Amulet/Cloak of the wind
2 Rings with +4 saves of specific types (undecided on which yet)
Boots of Traction
Copper Cube Ioun Stone
Shirt of Health

My "wavering" set of base items (due to cost or questioning usefulness):
Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Bracers of Fire
Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Eyes of Seeing
Belt of Retrieval

From there it's pretty much adding weapons, armor, and a lot of potions based on class, and I'm good to go.

First wanted to say that, in general, having a +6 to hit or above on normal means that you literally can't miss the monster as long as you get the slider on the outline. Thus, stacking a few points of +Hit is VERY good.

Second, Picc's selection of base gear is spot on for melee characters. It's better to have Boots of Free Action than to try to stack three items that aren't, by themselves, very good in order to get the same effect.

Similarly, the boost to hit and damage from Bracers of Fire + Gauntlets of Ogre Power is pretty key for melee classes.

Getting two +4 save rings is a good idea - if you do get them, grab Will and Fort - Reflex prevents damage. Will prevents getting mind-controlled (which happens all the time) and Fort prevents poison and nasty touch attack penalties.

This is basically why the Cloak of +2 Saves is very good - it protects you from a wide range of problems and is very cheap compared to, for example, the Ioun Stone.

Also, by stacking save bonuses, you make some items like Shirt of Health redundant at Normal difficulty because it becomes practically impossible to fail your save.

I agree with almost everything Toran says except that mind-control happens all the time. I haven't played long but I don't believe that my group has ever ran into anything that had mind control (unless the underwater sirens did. I don't because we all plugged our ears as soon as they showed up). I am not saying there isn't mind control just that my group hasn't encountered it in the last 3 years.

jedibcg wrote: I agree with almost everything Toran says except that mind-control happens all the time. I have played long but I don't believe that my group has ever ran into anything that had mind control (unless the underwater sirens did. I don't because we all plugged our ears as soon as they showed up). I am not saying there isn't mind control just that my group hasn't encountered it in the last 3 years.

The Sirens had it in 2012. The Dark... Charmer? Enchanter? The dead lady with the mind-controlled Giant slave at the end of Giant's Travail had it in 2013.

The Satyr had it in 2010.

It's come up nearly every year for the past 4 years.

Will also resists effects like fear, Maze and Confusion (which there's a special resistance token related to this year)

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

I don't think the wind items are necessarily useless though.
The amulet is the same as boots of free action. (I likely would have an open amulet slot otherwise.
The earcuff is immunity to surprise, which I'm expecting to help in one encounter this year.
The cloak is +1 saves and -5 damage from shock. Not as versatile as +2 saves, but not bad either.
All three together add featherfall and immunity to non-magical missiles.

Overall, I liked the mix of what that equipment gave for the 3 slots when comparing to the alternatives in my price range and availability.

I was actually going to go with an elven cloak as an alternative, before deciding a wind set was worth investing in, and should prove useful no matter what class I play.

Just a plug for Ioun Stone: Beryl Prism...while it is a bit costly for a rare at $8-10, it is a good investment if you plan to play TD more than one year. Since you can equip 5 ioun stones, even purpled out players still use the Beryl Prism in the mix. So if you plan to play 2 dungeons a year for the next few years and slowly build your equipment up over time it will be worth it. Even if you only played this year you could be pretty sure you would get at least close to your money back on it as there are always people looking for them. Just a thought.

BTW I like the Wind set as well...lots of nice benefits, the free action ability and can't be surprised are something most people like to have if possible and the Cloak is fine as well. Set bonus is okay too.