TOPIC: Runestone application in dungeon

<br />I think if the cards were available well in advance, and maybe with some simple directions, the groups would get them filled out in advance (anything to take some burden off the coaches and DMs). In this case, it would still be good to double check that the right tokens are present and the calcs are correct. <br />

<br /><br />Just FYI- the cards were on the tables at all times during the event...unless a pile ran out and was not replaced.  I think over the entire time I was working and or helping off shift - I only ran across one table without a stack of party cards.<br />

<br />At least you got to use your runestone.  We turned in a few of the + saves runestones and didn't roll a savingthrow once through both dungeons.  <br />

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<br />more chances for saving throws would be nice... perhaps during combat<br />

<br /><br />Different dungeon's have had different numbers of saving throw rolls.  For the 08 dungeon the big saving throw roll was in the final room.  On normal mode the guardian (If you fought him) was a save verses poison, on hardcore it was a save verses death.  When your rolling for a save verses death any "plus" you can get is nice.<br /><br />Conversely, there are now so many different tokens that its unlikely they will all be of use on a given dungeon (something that I think is kinda cool,  its much more "real" for me that you have so many choices as to how to outfit your self)<br /><br />Personally I hate saving throws in combat, because it slows the combat way way way down (One of my groups didn't finish the room I'm talking about above because we ran out of time, in (small) part because of having to deal with saving throw rolls).  ... Of course this is another thing that makes things more "real", so while I hate it, it doesn't mean that I think it shouldn't be there....  (I think I'm going to have run off and argue with myself...)<br /><br />

The save throw answer is EASY!<br /><br />KIS<br /><br />Have the party card track a save throw number for each player...BASE number plus any additions.<br /><br />Then - the game mechanic is set that if the monster strikes and has a poision or some other FORT save needed...don't roll, just put the FORT save needed number as X.  If the number on the party card is X or greater - the player makes the FORT save.<br /><br />done!

That would be easier, but I don't know if it would add any more "fun" <br /><br />The save system is only fun in the sense that there is that moment of tension and the relief when you "Make yer save"<br /><br />I think it'd be better in the puzzle rooms to have some sort of defense against my own bad ideas.  Sure, I pressed the wrong tablet, or put things in the wrong order, but thankfully I rolled well and only suffered X damage instead of 2X.  <br /><br />When it affects the whole party, it could be just one die roll and everyone adds it individually though to save time.<br /><br />

Well given that tokens are part of the game - and they might continue to impact the saves and all that...<br /><br />And given that we are looking for ways to save time...<br /><br />I really like the static save bonus approach.  Yes rolling a D20 is tense, but the DM could play up the moment when checking the + to save!<br /><br />AND consider this - currently save throws are typically ONLY in combat (when a combat board and D20 is in the room).<br /><br />My suggested solution could put saves in EVERY room...(I bet evil Mr. Martin picked up on that right away!)

In my case, the coach (who did a great job) wrote it not next to the melee damage box but on the left-hand margin of the party sheet.  What I was really getting at is if things like this are going to be more common let's have some discussion (as has been going on) to evolve the party sheet a little to make combat flow quickly and accurately or at the very least make sure to standardize the way it is noted so the DM's always know what to look for. As said, the number of modifier items is increasing every year, so the way the party cards represent things may have to change.<br /><br />Going with the +2,(+1 shock) idea might be ok, but harder to do for rangers and monks since they can have a modifier for each hand so you run out of space. <br /><br />I also think it's been said before but having the option to add saving throw modifiers on the sheet isn't a bad idea.  Go on and put the default values on the sheet just like the strengh modifiers are on there in small numbers. I realize that may be too much to ask of the coaches to spend the extra time to try and add bonuses for something that doesn't get used too often.

Personally I drive my saves up as much as I can.  I was +10 on all three counting my base numbers.  Easy for me to remember, and easy for me to prove to any DM who asks as I have them broken out on my TRUEDUNGEONFANS CHAR CARD.<br /><br />Now I know I am in the minority being that preparred but I find that useful for my sanity.  I think helping the players out and not asking them to remember all the +1 on this and +1 on that is a good idea to keep it simple on them. 

It really is getting kinda tough...every token set coming out now seems to have conditional stuff that needs to be noted on the party card.<br /><br />The volunteer boots adding +4 AC vs Dragons and the Stuff VS Fey is a good example.<br /><br />Dave, any ideas on how to improve the party card to catch all this stuff?<br /><br />Thanks!<br />G

<br />Well given that tokens are part of the game - and they might continue to impact the saves and all that...<br /><br />And given that we are looking for ways to save time...<br /><br />I really like the static save bonus approach.  Yes rolling a D20 is tense, but the DM could play up the moment when checking the + to save!<br /><br />AND consider this - currently save throws are typically ONLY in combat (when a combat board and D20 is in the room).<br /><br />My suggested solution could put saves in EVERY room...(I bet evil Mr. Martin picked up on that right away!)<br />

<br /><br />the problem i see with static saves are the cases of always fail or always succeed.  you will have newer players who dont have any bonuses to their saves, they will ALWAYS fail a static save, and then players who use every save booster (or even just most of them) will ALWAYS succeed (if they cant succeed a static save, then EVERYONE will fail, regardless of save bonuses).

Good point!

<br />In my case, the coach (who did a great job) wrote it not next to the melee damage box but on the left-hand margin of the party sheet.  What I was really getting at is if things like this are going to be more common let's have some discussion (as has been going on) to evolve the party sheet a little to make combat flow quickly and accurately or at the very least make sure to standardize the way it is noted so the DM's always know what to look for. As said, the number of modifier items is increasing every year, so the way the party cards represent things may have to change.<br /><br />Going with the +2,(+1 shock) idea might be ok, but harder to do for rangers and monks since they can have a modifier for each hand so you run out of space. <br /><br />I also think it's been said before but having the option to add saving throw modifiers on the sheet isn't a bad idea.  Go on and put the default values on the sheet just like the strengh modifiers are on there in small numbers. I realize that may be too much to ask of the coaches to spend the extra time to try and add bonuses for something that doesn't get used too often.<br />

<br /><br />i play ranger (why i like the new damage runestones so much), and my bonuses were fairly simple.  in fact, i tried thinking of what ways you can get different damage bonus for your two hands, and the only thing i could come up with is wearing a ring of the wolf with one weapon being magical and the other not.  anything else i can think of applied to both hands...of course your 'to hit' modifier will still be written as +x/+y (if you use weapons with different bonuses, ie +2 in one hand, +1 in the other), but damage should be consistant (differences are already on the tokens).<br />and as for contingent modifiers, i think they should be handled as they come up (by the player telling/showing the DM the relevant token), otherwise, there would be too much info on the party card that it would stop being useful.  my opinion; party card should be +to hit, +damage, AC, saves, full dungeon mandatory items (HoP, AoW), and one use checkboxes (theives tools)...basically, just add save bonuses.<br />hmm, i guess i would like to see a space for set bonuses, but that may get cumbersome as more sets become available...although, a single box for such things (with room for 2 set listings...assuming that is the max you can assemble) would work.  ok, so current party card with save bonuses and empty box for set acknowledgement/other notes.

Usually a ranger with +1 and +0 weapons just got the +1 benefit on both attacks.  Lest we confuse the DM and make them check which weapon it was that actually hit.<br /><br />When in doubt we give the players the advantage.  <br /><br />The thing with Stones and things like VS Fey or Dragons or what not - is that it is too specific.  I could see several squares for special attack or defense on the party card...but how many would we need?<br /><br />In my case I go into each room with the following:<br /><br />I can use my mace +1 damage VS undead...or I can use a hammer, kills Giants as per the token...also my Sling +5 damage to larger than man size...or my skull of doom which gets ranged damage bonus from strength!<br /><br />Ya see it is getting kinda muddy, and I am just the Cleric.