TOPIC: NO Legendary Transmute Recipes to be Altered EVER

Jeff Martin wrote: Let's extend the change in the CoA recipe to 6/1/26 -- so folks can have about 6 months notice AND some can make them at Ring Con. Thanks for the feedback all!

Thanks, Jeff!

Endgame wrote: I concur that the secondary market price shouldn't be the baseline.

What if a large scale player that has 10+ CoAs decides to liquidate them for $700 each? Does that mean the CoA recipe cost should go up?

What if the cost of OE goes up to $300 each in 8k auctions, because of a severe shortage, and it pushes the cost of PYPs down to $40? Does that mean the CoA recipe cost should go up?

I'd push back that auction sales are secondary market. Auction runners (forums and Trent) basically facilitate first-party sales by breaking things down into smaller lots for those of us without $8k to drop in a go.

Not that different from various resellers for enterprise software who take the sales load off of Microsoft, Adobe, etc. so they can focus on their core business.

All that said, my guess is that historic patterns said "if we set the recipe here, we'll ship X CoA's per year". Since UR prices are way down, they're actually shipping 50% more COAs than anticipated, which spirals into more treasure, which means more time spent on it, more medium flat rates, more warehouse space for it, etc.

Jeff Martin wrote:

David Zych wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Really good explanation, thanks.

+1

I think if you give 60 days notice of any increase in the COA recipe, or change that isn't a straight up reduction in a recipe, with specific details on what those changes are, this would be much better received.

I still think 60 days notice is too short for the sea change of putting an expiration date on previously-timeless recipes.

Once it's announced (and published in tokenDB) that e.g. "This recipe is subject to change with 60 days notice" or "This recipe is subject to change each year", players can adapt their future buying decisions based on whatever new expectation you set. But for this initial highly sudden and unexpected change, I think the current recipes should still be honored for the next 6-12 months.

Let's extend the change in the CoA recipe to 6/1/26 -- so folks can have about 6 months notice AND some can make them at Ring Con. Thanks for the feedback all!

Jeff, that seems like a reasonable compromise for those that are saving tokens to make them. I expect there will be a surge of Beads picked as PYPs on token orders in the next six months. Will you be posting the new recipe soon?

I'm still a bit confused as to why more CoA's within the player base is costly to True Dungeon. Is it because of all the shipping cost that they have to incur to ship out all the treasure pulls after the VTD events? Is it the time it takes for True Dungeon to do transmutes in general? Maybe both?

As for Legendary Tokens like the Bracers I don't think lowering the recipe cost is going to make any difference at all. People still will not transmit that legendary because it's just not a worthwhile Token to equip for in-game purposes. Changing the recipe in my opinion will just cause more work on TD's end and nothing will change. You can pick up these Bracers on the secondary market right now for under $400. I say leave the recipes alone. It's natural for older tokens that become underpowered over time that aren't worth using in game to not be desirable for transmuting. If TD wants people to transmute more Legendaries in general I suggest not putting so many into the treasure boxes. For almost all Legendaries right now It doesn't make any sense to transmute them because there are so many out there in the market. Much cheaper just to acquire them that way. That's how I currently obtain all of my Legendaries. When Legendaries used to cost me over 1K then I would transmit them. Haven't had to pay that much for one in 10 years.

I’m just now reading all of this.

I understand the CoA recipe issue and 6 months on that seems fine especially if you extend that past Ring con. I actually think it would be better to push it past gencon because a large part of the player base is completely disconnected until gencon.

Second I am ok with lowering requirements on old recipes especially when there are relics that are way better than that legendary like the bead and charm bracelet relics.

I certainly don’t want to see old recipes go up. I have stuff set out for 2 legendary’s but have stopped working on them until I get stuff for the coin of wealth (mostly gold at this point). I would hate to see a massive upward adjustment on any legendary other than maybe CoA.

Rob F wrote: I'm still a bit confused as to why more CoA's within the player base is costly to True Dungeon. Is it because of all the shipping cost that they have to incur to ship out all the treasure pulls after the VTD events? Is it the time it takes for True Dungeon to do transmutes in general? Maybe both?

As for Legendary Tokens like the Bracers I don't think lowering the recipe cost is going to make any difference at all. People still will not transmit that legendary because it's just not a worthwhile Token to equip for in-game purposes. Changing the recipe in my opinion will just cause more work on TD's end and nothing will change. You can pick up these Bracers on the secondary market right now for under $400. I say leave the recipes alone. It's natural for older tokens that become underpowered over time that aren't worth using in game to not be desirable for transmuting. If TD wants people to transmute more Legendaries in general I suggest not putting so many into the treasure boxes. For almost all Legendaries right now It doesn't make any sense to transmute them because there are so many out there in the market. Much cheaper just to acquire them that way. That's how I currently obtain all of my Legendaries. When Legendaries used to cost me over 1K then I would transmit them. Haven't had to pay that much for one in 10 years.

Rob, in addition to what you mentioned, True Dungeon also has to buy all the tokens that they are giving out as extra loot for the Charms of Avarice. It sounds like that is a LOT of tokens.

Perhaps there is also lost income for True Dungeon. If someone is getting hundreds (or thousands) of extra treasure pulls, they may not need to buy as many tokens as they might otherwise.

Much less alarming. Thanks for clarity.
+1

Would I ever use Tamor over the UR chsrm bracelet? Naw. Maybe its time to introduce +1 legendary items or some other upgrade that we can transmute to make them better gear and thus desireable

I’m pretty sure what TaMor’s needs is a damage wheel and letting a monk use 2. Might be best done with a new legendary where TaMor’s is an alternate recipe ingredient, similar to Welfor’s -> Kilgore’s.


That discussion is kind of tangential to the CoA #3 recipe, where the components will almost certainly go up on their own in a few months

Jeff,

Thanks for the explanation.

Be careful here. You were given player feedback that the 2026 PYP tokens were not inspiring for established players who at the ones who purchase tokens, not directly and at auction. I believe you’re seeing a flood of COA orders now because the value of PYPs dropped precipitously as people are completing multi year transmutes, driving the PYP price down to historic lows. But still the PYP price and thus the ability to close a record number of $8k sales is propped up from player interest in scooping up $50 Beads. I suspect if the COA recipe 3 did not exist you’d have closed a lot fewer $8k sales.

That said…

I think waiting until after RingCon or GenCon is the way to go. It’s fine for you to change recipe 3 with enough advance warning.

For other recipes I think it’s fine to make them cheaper or add a second option. If you’re considering raising the cost I’d give more heads up.

I think the trade goods not being balanced based on what you can expect to get out of orders in the safehold program has led to trade goods being all out of wack.

Also on some of the old legendary’s maybe consider reprinting some of the components when we go to token development. For example maybe reprinting Potion Hallowed Oasis Water for Relsa’s. I know a Omni orb can be used but that is cost prohibitive.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I think the trade goods not being balanced based on what you can expect to get out of orders in the safehold program has led to trade goods being all out of wack.

Also on some of the old legendary’s maybe consider reprinting some of the components when we go to token development. For example maybe reprinting Potion Hallowed Oasis Water for Relsa’s. I know a Omni orb can be used but that is cost prohibitive.

Or update old recipes to allow for “these old URs, or any Current Year UR”.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I think the trade goods not being balanced based on what you can expect to get out of orders in the safehold program has led to trade goods being all out of wack.

Also on some of the old legendary’s maybe consider reprinting some of the components when we go to token development. For example maybe reprinting Potion Hallowed Oasis Water for Relsa’s. I know a Omni orb can be used but that is cost prohibitive.

Maybe there should be a third OMNI token for R/U/C rarities.