TOPIC: More Info on 4-Year Patron Token - Get Your Name on a Token!

I agree with Ini and Mike. If the resale is your concern this items is one for you to skip. If you had bought a mark and do not want it now, there are plenty of years to sell it and I'd be surprised if you can't find a buyer looking for one at a decent price.

To me this tier of items is not to be cost effective, but be a patron. They're weaker, they're not meant to be a value, they're cool and unique things you get as thanks for shoving money to TPTB. You're meant to be their patron, supporting them, not an investor imo.

I think trying cool unique things is great for patrons. Heck I'd think it was cool if they didn't give out tokens but gave out random set pieces or the such too.

If you're looking for resale value, step away from patron items imho. If you wanna support TD, have the cash to spare, and think this is cool. Do it~

Kirk Bauer wrote: I think for a large number of players, the potential future resale value of tokens is a significant factor, and I think it makes total sense. Not many people would be willing to spend thousands of dollars per year on tokens without at least a decent chance that they could liquidate those in the future if they want to, or need to. I think that, for many of those players, they should not get one of these tokens. And I think we have plenty of advance notice for them to make that decision now.

Also, one could say "A relic-level power that I can't resell in the future isn't worth $2k", and you would probably be right. But it is important to remember that neither Jeff, nor TD, sets the value of things like this. The players and the market does it (*). So the market might be overpricing it, but that shouldn't require that Jeff changes his plans for the token. Again, I'm appreciative that we know this upfront.

Finally, I think that Jeff truly thinks of these tokens as a "thank you" to large collectors. That's why the first Orb was a surprise. If you happen to be buying $8ks anyways, for yourself or your group, then as a bonus you got an Orb. I think this is the same thing, in Jeff's mind. So, is a soul-bound relic worth $2k? Again, probably not. Is it a super cool bonus "thank you" for people who spend a lot on tokens? Definitely.

(*) Interestingly enough, I've realized that the Orbs have likely been the cause (probably unintentional) of the huge surge in token auctions. Prior to 2015, for $2k per year, you would have access to everything, and a chance at a GT. But now, you need to spend $8k per year to get everything. The number of people willing to pay $8k/yr is a lot lower than the number of people willing to pay $2k/yr. So, that really opens up the market for auctions -- people who can't or won't spend $8k per year can now get access to the $8k bonus, and its price reflects that.

+1 Great post Kirk!

David Harris wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I think for a large number of players, the potential future resale value of tokens is a significant factor, and I think it makes total sense. Not many people would be willing to spend thousands of dollars per year on tokens without at least a decent chance that they could liquidate those in the future if they want to, or need to. I think that, for many of those players, they should not get one of these tokens. And I think we have plenty of advance notice for them to make that decision now.

Also, one could say "A relic-level power that I can't resell in the future isn't worth $2k", and you would probably be right. But it is important to remember that neither Jeff, nor TD, sets the value of things like this. The players and the market does it (*). So the market might be overpricing it, but that shouldn't require that Jeff changes his plans for the token. Again, I'm appreciative that we know this upfront.

Finally, I think that Jeff truly thinks of these tokens as a "thank you" to large collectors. That's why the first Orb was a surprise. If you happen to be buying $8ks anyways, for yourself or your group, then as a bonus you got an Orb. I think this is the same thing, in Jeff's mind. So, is a soul-bound relic worth $2k? Again, probably not. Is it a super cool bonus "thank you" for people who spend a lot on tokens? Definitely.

(*) Interestingly enough, I've realized that the Orbs have likely been the cause (probably unintentional) of the huge surge in token auctions. Prior to 2015, for $2k per year, you would have access to everything, and a chance at a GT. But now, you need to spend $8k per year to get everything. The number of people willing to pay $8k/yr is a lot lower than the number of people willing to pay $2k/yr. So, that really opens up the market for auctions -- people who can't or won't spend $8k per year can now get access to the $8k bonus, and its price reflects that.

+1 Great post Kirk!

I think Kirk is correct in stating that for a large number of players the potential resell value of a Token is a significant factor. And because these will be worthless to those folks they should steer clear of this Token. Question is, is that what TD wants?

I also agree that the Orbs were a huge surge in Token auctions. So if most of the player base steers clear of these Tokens will less auctions fund? If that's the case I again ask, is that what TD wants, less auctions funded?

TD can take the position that they don't care/or have impact on the secondary Token market but a healthy secondary market helps drive Token sales. Simple economics. If they release Tokens to the community that cost 2K to buy with no resale value they will have less buyers then if they released a Token that cost 2K to buy that maintains some value in the secondary market.

If TD wants to maximize Token sales they shouldn't create Tokens that can't be resold.

As another player mentioned, TD could customize the Token with the players name but not "soulforge" it to them. The "soulforging" has zero benefit to the player or TD.

Impy wrote: I'd think it was cool if they didn't give out tokens but gave out random set pieces or the such too.

In the very early days of TD, we kind of did that. At Gen Con (back when that was the only place to play TD) on Sunday morning, there would be an auction for various props, tokens, and other stuff. But instead of paying in dollars, you paid (and bid) in GP. I remember bidding on the prop used for Goblet of Healing. Forumite George won that and I've been jealous ever since. (sortakindbutnottotally kidding)

Druegar wrote: If one doesn't want to make on their own Mark of Enlightenment or purchase a Mark of Enlightenment from a third party, one doesn't have to. That's a perfectly valid option.

If a person purchases an 8k with the intent of selling the constituents and that person has no desire for a custom token nor for a token who's future resale value is likely to be diminished, I suspect there will be folks who still want the coolness of having a custom token knowing full-well its potential future value.

We're giving y'all advanced notice so you can make an informed decision. If we threw the soulforged aspect in at the last minute, I'd totally get why there would be this level of vexation. But that's not the case here. If you want to make one, make one. If for any reason you don't want to make one, don't make one.

I'm having trouble understanding why the "soulforged" part of the Token is beneficial to either TD or the player. Why not customize the Token with the players name but drop the "soulforged" aspect? Player gets cool unique Token AND they can recouped some (or all) of their high dollar investment down the road if they want.

Another option I'd ask TD to consider for people buying four years of 8K's or spending 2K on a Mark: At least give the player the option to either have it soulforged or not. If you want it soulforged and never be able to resell it go for it, have that printed on your Token. If you don't want it soulforged so you can allow someone else to use it later just have your name put on it, or maybe put "Forged By:" and then your name.

Manimal wrote:

That said I'm honestly more concerned about the interest in Fragment 4 dropping off a cliff and hurting auctions/token auction availability in 2026 if people who join the later decide they missed fragment 1 or 2 (see what happened with tooth 7). I wonder if we might not be better served in terms of sales over the next 4 years by saying "Any 4 fragments"

If that is to be the decision, it needs to be announced now not 4 years from now. People are buying the Fragment 1 now with the understanding that it will be required, and they are paying market price on the secondary market with that assumption. Announcing in year 4 that suddenly you can just grab 4 Fragment 4s (for example) at the end of the auction season for a fraction of the Fragment 1 price frankly is unfair to those who are buying now (and supporting the auctions — and purchases from TD, now).

Yes it happened with the Dragon Orbs and was wrong. People were buying the 5 Orbs for the Elder Orb thinking they needed 5 unique (which was the stated plan originally). The earlier Orbs were significantly more expensive on the secondary market than the last year Orb which was going for (relative) peanuts in the auctions.

It comes off as a bait and switch. Encouraging people to buy the Fragments in years 1-3 thinking they need them and then, in year 4, deciding they don’t need them to encourage sales in year 4.

Looking back at the original threads tied to the orbs, it was explicit that the complete orb transmute would need to be all unique orbs but it wasn't ever said that the 5 part transmute required unique orbs. I transmuted one of both and did the elder orb with 5 of the last orb that I bought each piece for $300-$450 each (plus what I added from my own orders.) Tokendb's first entry for the 5 part orb said it didn't require unique pieces - that's why I went out to buy those when I did. I know a few other people who did the same thing.

The orbs that went for the most were 1 and 2 and that was almost exclusively for people wanting the Eldest orb transmute.

Ultimately, Jeff did us a favor by making a 5 part available - that was never originally promised. I wouldn't be critical about that in retrospect.

Fred

As a goofy aside, since the token is a tattoo - if someone gets a real tattoo of it, there should be a bonus power

This is purely for the fun and popularity of the game. I wouldn't do it (I really don't like needles) but others may. I'd bet my wife would consider it (obviously an image having to do with a dwarf taunting.)

Fred

Rob F wrote: Another option I'd ask TD to consider for people buying four years of 8K's or spending 2K on a Mark: At least give the player the option to either have it soulforged or not. If you want it soulforged and never be able to resell it go for it, have that printed on your Token. If you don't want it soulforged so you can allow someone else to use it later just have your name put on it, or maybe put "Forged By:" and then your name.

I do like the idea of "Forged by" instead of Soulforged

David Harris wrote:

Rob F wrote: Another option I'd ask TD to consider for people buying four years of 8K's or spending 2K on a Mark: At least give the player the option to either have it soulforged or not. If you want it soulforged and never be able to resell it go for it, have that printed on your Token. If you don't want it soulforged so you can allow someone else to use it later just have your name put on it, or maybe put "Forged By:" and then your name.

I do like the idea of "Forged by" instead of Soulforged

+1 on both of Rob F's posts. Well put. Also getting an actual tattoo of the mark would be significantly cheaper.

I would totally get a real tattoo of my "unique" token tattoo for an added in game effect! You only live once (and I'm on the downward slope of this ride). I'm new to all this, I,m hooked, and I'll play till the doors close on this game (it's just a game right?)

I do find the idea of “my own” token more compelling than “sorta unique token that can be resold.” If I were worried about resale value, I’d put that money into a COA, or a more stable form of investment entirely (no offense intended.)

From the tiny bit that I know about token production I know this isn’t an easy feat to pull off for TD and I appreciate the effort they’re making to create unique tokens. It really does feel like a special “thank you” to the patrons.

And if I manage to get my hands on one. I’m absolutely getting a tattoo version.