TOPIC: New Completion token: Belt of the brave

I tried to move all the BotB posts from the QTR Beta thread into this thread, but I think I may have #$@%'d some of them up. If I accidentally deleted your post, I am genuinely sorry. It was NOT intentional.

Azzy wrote: I guess I'll be gearing up for some back-to-back runs for that one.

I mean, you know I'm there with you :\

Druegar wrote: I tried to move all the BotB posts from the QTR Beta thread into this thread, but I think I may have #$@%'d some of them up. If I accidentally deleted your post, I am genuinely sorry. It was NOT intentional.

Thanks Druegar, probably a good idea.

Though I agree that it is way too strong for a rare, I do want to point out that it does not equal +4 strength. It does not affect thrown weapons damage. Someone else already pointed this out in the previous thread but it bares repeating. A small thing but still good to keep in mind. Nor would it affect mighty range weapons as they use strength bonus not melee damage.

Matthew Hayward wrote: I just had to save for posterity one of the great Freudian slips of all time:

Druegar wrote: I've split the debate over Belt of the Brave off into its own thread . Feel free to discontinue discussion of that topic in that thread and not here. Thank you.

Slip you say...

Overall thoughts:

1. It's not unprecedented-ish. Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid stomped pretty hard on an in print UR - although at least you can equip multiple Iouns.

2. I'm in the market for some Hitchhiking Ghost: Shog - does anyone have some they want to sell

3. I hope TD knows what it's doing:

Plusses:
- Sells Tickets
- Gateway to UR+ tokens for casual players
- Makes completion tokens relevant (come on - other than Lamp of the Marid and Efreeti how many see play?)
- May shrink the gap between ~$100 and ~$1000 builds (which I think would be good)

Minuses:
- Unscrupulous people may try to cheat new players out of high value completion tokens
- May create confusion and turn people off ("why is belt of Ogre Power so bad compared to Belt of the Brave? This game is dumb.")
- May create a "mad rush" for tickets for certain events (although that might be good for TD and us all in the long run)
- Might create a "feel bad" scenario especially at cons where Alice does dungeon 1, and Bob does dungeon 2, and Alice sells her completion token for $40 and the vendor won't even make an offer on Bob's.
- Might signal that power creep is hitting an unsustainable pace (this belt being better overall than 2018 UR Girdle of Stone Giant Strength may suggest that any UR effect can be printed at rare 3 years later)
- May undermine confidence in the token market overall
- Does harm people who recently acquired a belt for melee in that the might have chosen otherwise had they known about this.

Overall:

I'm willing to give TD the benefit of the doubt, maybe it will turn out great.

I might consider making a new backing /rarity for these types of tokens in the future.

I would rather see ~UR effects printed on completion tokens be something novel as opposed to something that takes a bite of an existing UR or Relic

Matthew Hayward wrote: I might consider making a new backing /rarity for these types of tokens in the future.

I've often thought it strange that the completion tokens (or volunteer tokens for that matter) fall into the regular rarity scheme. I like the idea of giving completion tokens a different backing and/or rarity.

We've had some very strong completion tokens the last few years, I believe intended for the low attendance cons. Compare it to Jasper Ellipsoid from this year. An ioun being about half the power of a belt doesn't seem insane.

Also I am guessing that the change from 'completion' to 'participation' has some meaning we haven't been told yet. It could mean that ghosts aren't going to get them (somebody has to actually participate) which would cut down on supply even further if it's for a low attendance con. (it's also possible that participation means they're going to start giving them out at the start of a run with the token bag so new players have another token they can use which wouldn't impact this discussion at all).

The dots near the exchange type aren't enough for you?

I agree on the rarity thing.

Horn of Blasting, Censer of Sacrifice also see play.

This is this year's Jasper Ellipsoid, to be sure. There are nuances where the belt isn't strictly better than Stone Giant Strength or Ogre Mage Power, but they are definitely few.

Would +2 to hit only be good enough? Then force players to choose between +1/+1 or +2/+0? We may never know.

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I might consider making a new backing /rarity for these types of tokens in the future.

I've often thought it strange that the completion tokens (or volunteer tokens for that matter) fall into the regular rarity scheme. I like the idea of giving completion tokens a different backing and/or rarity.

I thought they fell into the regular rarity scheme to work with the trade goods system? So, if you end up with lots of non-useful completion tokens, they can always get mulched.

Then again, if they're more useful, that goes away.

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I might consider making a new backing /rarity for these types of tokens in the future.

I've often thought it strange that the completion tokens (or volunteer tokens for that matter) fall into the regular rarity scheme. I like the idea of giving completion tokens a different backing and/or rarity.

Agreed

Matthew Hayward wrote: - Makes completion tokens relevant (come on - other than Lamp of the Marid and Efreeti how many see play?)

At lower levels..
Brawler's Horn and Amulet of Shock are nice up to a certain level. The Horns are slotless so could see some play. Flask of Sharing doesn't hurt if you don't have lotus bowls? IS: Amber Cube is a fun Gauntlets of Midgard Serpent offset. Ring of Roaring can be useful as missile damage is hard to come by at R and lower. Shoes of Nethercraft are another UR -> R completion migration. Wicked Charm can round out STR at Normal.