TOPIC: Orion's Belt

Fiddy wrote:

Fred K wrote: Why wouldn't new players have them? Based on Jeff's comments, it sounds like a big emphasis is being placed on helping new players - I'd guess that these would go into a routine reprint schedule likely faster than we've seen in the past (possibly every 3-4 years or quicker).

Fred

Depending on how "new players" are being defined?

Unless we start having some Rare slot expanders (which I actually think we could do, maybe in 2021?), I would suspect very few "new players" are likely to have slot expanders. There are so many other things to target at UR+ level first. So by the time someone picks up a slot expander, they are probably a veteran player and no longer a new player.

Or at least that is one potential way of looking at it.

Exactly, most newer token buyers have no need to buy slot expanders because they are still obtaining good tokens to fill all the original slots.

Fiddy wrote:

Fred K wrote: Why wouldn't new players have them? Based on Jeff's comments, it sounds like a big emphasis is being placed on helping new players - I'd guess that these would go into a routine reprint schedule likely faster than we've seen in the past (possibly every 3-4 years or quicker).

Fred

Depending on how "new players" are being defined?

Unless we start having some Rare slot expanders (which I actually think we could do, maybe in 2021?), I would suspect very few "new players" are likely to have slot expanders. There are so many other things to target at UR+ level first. So by the time someone picks up a slot expander, they are probably a veteran player and no longer a new player.

Or at least that is one potential way of looking at it.

You are right in that - of course, with scope creep on rares - you can rival many 2 URs with 2 or 3 rares and a UR slot expander. Compare damage or str items. Picture someone buying 2 UR's - Picking up the ring of the drake (granted - it can be transmuted so that increases it's long term value) giving you +2 to melee damage, or shirt of the oaf for +3 str/-1 dex (again long term transmute value as well), or the +2 flaming blade (great item overall). That player would likely pay $220 in PYPs for two of those and have a very good weapon and +2 damage or just +2 damage and +3 str/-1 dex.

For the same $220, if the new player bought an enchanter's whetstone ($25), +1 blood mace or +1 assassin's blade or +1 bliss hammer (all likely $5?) - their damage is very close to the flaming blade having only spent $30 and using the same slot (whetstone being unslotted). Then spend $110 for a charm of glory (they likely haven't found great uses for all charm slots) adding a ring slot - then add another rare ring (dark health +1 damage and heal 1) or hallowed ring (+1 str) or something similar. Alternately, a charm of broaching for a second back slot and get +2 to all saves, etc..

Outside of class specific URs that provide unique powers/exceptions or some of the unusually powerful URs - the best 2 things a new player can get to boost their power is an item to get to Level 5 (hat this next year) and slot expanders. They are then, better off spending $50-$75 to get a great set of rares and relics like the whetstone and they are easily ready for HC.

My recommendation for newer players is usually try to max out what you can do with rares for under $100 then get your level 5 item. From there, it's build specific but slot expanders are always big in doing that.

My 2 cents...

Fred

Fred K wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Fred K wrote: Why wouldn't new players have them? Based on Jeff's comments, it sounds like a big emphasis is being placed on helping new players - I'd guess that these would go into a routine reprint schedule likely faster than we've seen in the past (possibly every 3-4 years or quicker).

Fred

Depending on how "new players" are being defined?

Unless we start having some Rare slot expanders (which I actually think we could do, maybe in 2021?), I would suspect very few "new players" are likely to have slot expanders. There are so many other things to target at UR+ level first. So by the time someone picks up a slot expander, they are probably a veteran player and no longer a new player.

Or at least that is one potential way of looking at it.

You are right in that - of course, with scope creep on rares - you can rival many 2 URs with 2 or 3 rares and a UR slot expander. Compare damage or str items. Picture someone buying 2 UR's - Picking up the ring of the drake (granted - it can be transmuted so that increases it's long term value) giving you +2 to melee damage, or shirt of the oaf for +3 str/-1 dex (again long term transmute value as well), or the +2 flaming blade (great item overall). That player would likely pay $220 in PYPs for two of those and have a very good weapon and +2 damage or just +2 damage and +3 str/-1 dex.

For the same $220, if the new player bought an enchanter's whetstone ($25), +1 blood mace or +1 assassin's blade or +1 bliss hammer (all likely $5?) - their damage is very close to the flaming blade having only spent $30 and using the same slot (whetstone being unslotted). Then spend $110 for a charm of glory (they likely haven't found great uses for all charm slots) adding a ring slot - then add another rare ring (dark health +1 damage and heal 1) or hallowed ring (+1 str) or something similar. Alternately, a charm of broaching for a second back slot and get +2 to all saves, etc..

Outside of class specific URs that provide unique powers/exceptions or some of the unusually powerful URs - the best 2 things a new player can get to boost their power is an item to get to Level 5 (hat this next year) and slot expanders. They are then, better off spending $50-$75 to get a great set of rares and relics like the whetstone and they are easily ready for HC.

My recommendation for newer players is usually try to max out what you can do with rares for under $100 then get your level 5 item. From there, it's build specific but slot expanders are always big in doing that.

My 2 cents...

Fred

Agreed in general, but I would say stepping into the UR scene, you want level 5, then a UR neck (even the new Amulet of Vigor is a poor substitute for a UR neck item), then to start branching out from there.

When it comes to charm and IS expanders, if you were just going to try to buy the charm and IS expanders and just fill with rare and under in those extra slots, you really don't get much for the money. There just aren't that many great Charms and Ioun Stones at that rarity. Like you point out, however, the charm based slot swappers are great, because there are decent rares in Ring and Back, and both of those charms are likely to live in a build for a really long time.

Finally I can't find whetstones for less than $40 anywhere. If someone is selling them for $25, I still need 2 more... That said, I do believe I agree with the general idea that selectively picking the right 4* Transmutes will lead to better value than just jumping from a rare build to a UR build.

That sounds about right. 4*'s are usually where I end up when I buy tokens because that's where my budget tops out after I add in my treasure pulls. UR's can be hard to justify. I currently have two, and they're both +2 weapons because I got them in a pre-Whetstone world. If I was doing it all over again, that's definitely not where I'd start.

Rob F wrote: I have no problem with the transmute cost on this one. It's perfect. It should include the Fragments and Bits, as it's a special Token and it's a Relic so the other trade goods are fine. I really hope Jeff doesn't pay attention to posts lobbying for a change in the recipe on this one. This one should be all his. If someone thinks the costs outweigh the power level then I say just don't make it.

I would personally walk back any hesitation/concerns I have about the belt, if it were know that Relic Recipe Fragments were something that will continue to be part of the Treasure pool after the 2019 pool is gone.

That way I can work to collect/trade the monster bits I'd need for both the bead and the belt, while working towards the 6 fragments I need for the belt from the 2019 & 2020 pools (to meet the Dec 1, 2020 deadline to make the belt)

Not official, but I would assume they will be 2019 only, like the charms of transmorph were 2018 only

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Not official, but I would assume they will be 2019 only, like the charms of transmorph were 2018 only

That would be my guess as well.

I am 99% confident Relic Recipe Fragments will not be in next season's treasure mix.

Druegar wrote: I am 99% confident Relic Recipe Fragments will not be in next season's treasure mix.

I'm glad, I look forward to a new surprise next year!

Mike Steele wrote:

Druegar wrote: I am 99% confident Relic Recipe Fragments will not be in next season's treasure mix.

I'm glad, I look forward to a new surprise next year!

Or maybe we take a break for a year, since we will have new class cards.to work on.....

Do you think sellers will price this over or under $200?

jon wrote: Do you think sellers will price this over or under $200?

Initially definitely over.