TOPIC: Completion Token Transmute?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:
In all seriousness I was operating under the impression you could carry as many holy symbols as you wanted due to them being slotless.

Gods tend to be the jealous type.

Picc wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: The premise is that you choose the God you follow long before any of those other choices.

Still waiting on my holy symbol of mask then XD

In all seriousness I was operating under the impression you could carry as many holy symbols as you wanted due to them being slotless.

I was also, although I assumed that since you can still turn if you have no symbol, it was a new phone, and you could use whichever you wanted to phone your bestest friend out of this world.

macXdmg wrote: I assumed that since you can still turn if you have no symbol

All clerics have a "generic" holy symbol. Some clerics have a specialized holy symbol, as represented by a holy symbol token.

It's a lot like how a bard can still perform bardsong without an instrument token because all bards are assumed to have a "generic" instrument. Or how a ranger can fire a bow without an ammo token.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: I’m souring on slotless tokens. I just reworked my build. It now has 50 tokens. 15 of them are slotless.

How about a limit of, say, 20 slotless tokens per person? Of course, that would be a "slot" for "slotless".

+100 to this. Having unlimited slotless Tokens:

- Makes your build less realistic. People can't carry unlimited stuff.
- Limits build diversity.
- Makes the game less challenging (I think I have a slotless Token that nullifies every possible effect).
- Makes you have to lug more Tokens through the dungeon.

I never really got the whole "slotless" thing. Always thought there should be "gear" or "equipment" slots. How come my character can lug a Coffer, Scepter, Lamps, Jars, Horns, etc. along in the dungeon but only wear two rings? Or weave only one tiny Bead into his hair/beard? Makes no sense.

Rob F wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: I’m souring on slotless tokens. I just reworked my build. It now has 50 tokens. 15 of them are slotless.

How about a limit of, say, 20 slotless tokens per person? Of course, that would be a "slot" for "slotless".

+100 to this. Having unlimited slotless Tokens:

- Makes your build less realistic. People can't carry unlimited stuff.
- Limits build diversity.
- Makes the game less challenging (I think I have a slotless Token that nullifies every possible effect).
- Makes you have to lug more Tokens through the dungeon.

I never really got the whole "slotless" thing. Always thought there should be "gear" or "equipment" slots. How come my character can lug a Coffer, Scepter, Lamps, Jars, Horns, etc. along in the dungeon but only wear two rings? Or weave only one tiny Bead into his hair/beard? Makes no sense.

Are you talking about slotless tokens, or consumables?

I don't think there are (non-consumable) slotless tokens that mitigate against:

Most kinds of typed damage (e.g. Acid, Shock, Sonic, etc.), melee damage, retribution damage, the non-damage effects of spells with a few minor exceptions (Horns). Even then - often these items cost an action to use (opportunity cost), require you to be sharp to remember to apply them, and make you make tradeoff time decisions in the dungeon (e.g. is it worth figuring out if the 3 points of damage I just took from the dropped flaming globes is ranged or magical so I can resist it with Kvothes, or is that time going to be needed elsewhere).

I don't think slotless tokens are harming any build diversity unless you would limit it to like 5 or fewer slots.

Can you explain what kind of a slot limit you'd advocate for and what changes you think this would make to builds?

Rob F wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: I’m souring on slotless tokens. I just reworked my build. It now has 50 tokens. 15 of them are slotless.

How about a limit of, say, 20 slotless tokens per person? Of course, that would be a "slot" for "slotless".

+100 to this. Having unlimited slotless Tokens:

- Makes your build less realistic. People can't carry unlimited stuff.
- Limits build diversity.
- Makes the game less challenging (I think I have a slotless Token that nullifies every possible effect).
- Makes you have to lug more Tokens through the dungeon.

I never really got the whole "slotless" thing. Always thought there should be "gear" or "equipment" slots. How come my character can lug a Coffer, Scepter, Lamps, Jars, Horns, etc. along in the dungeon but only wear two rings? Or weave only one tiny Bead into his hair/beard? Makes no sense.

The standard D&D answer - because magic.

Harlax wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: I’m souring on slotless tokens. I just reworked my build. It now has 50 tokens. 15 of them are slotless.

How about a limit of, say, 20 slotless tokens per person? Of course, that would be a "slot" for "slotless".

+100 to this. Having unlimited slotless Tokens:

- Makes your build less realistic. People can't carry unlimited stuff.
- Limits build diversity.
- Makes the game less challenging (I think I have a slotless Token that nullifies every possible effect).
- Makes you have to lug more Tokens through the dungeon.

I never really got the whole "slotless" thing. Always thought there should be "gear" or "equipment" slots. How come my character can lug a Coffer, Scepter, Lamps, Jars, Horns, etc. along in the dungeon but only wear two rings? Or weave only one tiny Bead into his hair/beard? Makes no sense.

The standard D&D answer - because magic.

+100

Harlax wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: I’m souring on slotless tokens. I just reworked my build. It now has 50 tokens. 15 of them are slotless.

How about a limit of, say, 20 slotless tokens per person? Of course, that would be a "slot" for "slotless".

+100 to this. Having unlimited slotless Tokens:

- Makes your build less realistic. People can't carry unlimited stuff.
- Limits build diversity.
- Makes the game less challenging (I think I have a slotless Token that nullifies every possible effect).
- Makes you have to lug more Tokens through the dungeon.

I never really got the whole "slotless" thing. Always thought there should be "gear" or "equipment" slots. How come my character can lug a Coffer, Scepter, Lamps, Jars, Horns, etc. along in the dungeon but only wear two rings? Or weave only one tiny Bead into his hair/beard? Makes no sense.

The standard D&D answer - because magic.

This is very true.

You. Ould be carrying them all in your bag of holding (slotless).

I have something like 26-27 slotless items (including the 5 teeth), often I do forget that I have something that will negate the effects of X but usually I do remember it. There are more than a doen effects that they outright negate and a few others where damage is reduced. Added to that are class specific items (rogue, wizard, druid, and cleric) that allow for either better use of akills or byoassing normal rules,

I’m torn about limiting them. What is currently happening is they are slowly being slotted. Tomes are a slot next year (removing 2-3), I suspect horns will be a slot in time (what do we have, like 10 of those?} Censors and similar will likely become a slot as well.

Carrying them all in a quick access way is challenging. I donthink they are game breaking but it would be good to move to only adding 1-2 a tear. Last year we added 6+.

Fred

Reminds me of that old vaudeville routine: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this..."

If you find they're reducing your fun for one reason or another, you don't have to carry so many. People do challenge runs all the time: Green With Envy, Sealed, X tokens or less, etc.

"Then don't do that anymore!"

The potential downsides of inventing new slots

If the slot appears on the coaching mat, new players with nothing to put there often feel bad about that

Or they have something to put there and it’s just one more conditional token to explain.

The same logic could come to apply to potions, scrolls, wands and consumable. And gear.

If it’s on the mat, the mat is going to get very crowded. We know a tome slot is coming. Holy symbols as well?

Probably more that others will think off.


If there is a slotless limit, who is going to police the limit? Coaches? Please, no. The proliferation of slots in recent years has added enough work.

Do you want an encumbrance rule? Because this is how you get an encumbrance rule.

Harlax wrote:
Do you want an encumbrance rule? Because this is how you get an encumbrance rule.

Then, just like before, everyone will simply ignore it...