TOPIC: Would it make sense to have pre-made 100 treasure bags at end of dungeon?

The Falcon wrote: It’s human nature,
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Made it worse.
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+1!

If only....

How are treasure bags made? Will they lesson the chance for players without TE to pull a UR?

jedibcg wrote:

edwin wrote: Hand out the run rewards at each station. Do not let individuals cut into this process by asking for bags or doing treasure pulls at the reward tables.

Folks that want to turn in their tresure tokens for bags should be able to do so in a seperate queue at the end of all of the tables. This is the same spot you can line up several boxes to draw from by turning in treasure chips.

Need to keep people from queue and clustering around the reward tables.

what are you talking about? you can already do pulls at the end of a dungeon. handing someone a bag of whatever count isn’t going to slow things any more than handing them a number of chips. no one is suggesting making end of dungeon replace the store for turning lots of chips for bags. Suggestions have been for replacing getting chips at end of dungeon with bags or pulls because again you can already pull at the end of the dungeon.

Neither was I suggesting that. Just need to move groups on when the run behind them shows up. Been on a number of run where the group I was in had to wait for the previous group to get out of the reward table area.

jon wrote: How are treasure bags made? Will they lesson the chance for players without TE to pull a UR?

They are pulled randomly from the same pool as the treasure boxes so they have no affect on the treasure boxes.

jon wrote: How are treasure bags made? Will they lesson the chance for players without TE to pull a UR?

Hard to say

Things I have observed:

Picture on the forum a few years ago of the treasure being mixed in a cement mixer.

While working epilogue, seeing the treasure boxes being refilled from buckets brought up from back of the house.
While doing set up and tear down seeing about a dozen plus buckets filled with treasure
I’ve had really spectacular bags. And really crummy ones.
I’ve had really spectacular draws from the boxes. And really crummy ones.

Things I conclude:

The full mix of available treasure is not available in the boxes at any given moment. A lot of it is in buckets at any given moment.



Things I wonder about.

Are the bags filled from buckets? In which case they are like the boxes, not drawn from the full pool of treasure.

Are the filled from the mixer? In which case they are drawn from the full mix.




That’s a long winded way of saying “who knows?” I prefer to draw from multiple sources on multiple days, but I can’t say my results from that are any better.

Harlax wrote:

jon wrote: How are treasure bags made? Will they lesson the chance for players without TE to pull a UR?

Hard to say

Things I have observed:

Picture on the forum a few years ago of the treasure being mixed in a cement mixer.

While working epilogue, seeing the treasure boxes being refilled from buckets brought up from back of the house.
While doing set up and tear down seeing about a dozen plus buckets filled with treasure
I’ve had really spectacular bags. And really crummy ones.
I’ve had really spectacular draws from the boxes. And really crummy ones.

Things I conclude:

The full mix of available treasure is not available in the boxes at any given moment. A lot of it is in buckets at any given moment.



Things I wonder about.

Are the bags filled from buckets? In which case they are like the boxes, not drawn from the full pool of treasure.

Are the filled from the mixer? In which case they are drawn from the full mix.




That’s a long winded way of saying “who knows?” I prefer to draw from multiple sources on multiple days, but I can’t say my results from that are any better.

Those buckets are the treasure pool. Bags are filled from those buckets ie the treasure pool. Getting a bag is no different than pulling from the treasure box. Therefore they have no affect on boxes. At various points the boxes are refilled from the buckets. If the bags didn't exist max treasure players would be pulling the same number of tokens from the boxes which would need to be filled from the buckets.

jedibcg wrote:

Harlax wrote:

jon wrote: How are treasure bags made? Will they lesson the chance for players without TE to pull a UR?

Hard to say

Things I have observed:

Picture on the forum a few years ago of the treasure being mixed in a cement mixer.

While working epilogue, seeing the treasure boxes being refilled from buckets brought up from back of the house.
While doing set up and tear down seeing about a dozen plus buckets filled with treasure
I’ve had really spectacular bags. And really crummy ones.
I’ve had really spectacular draws from the boxes. And really crummy ones.

Things I conclude:

The full mix of available treasure is not available in the boxes at any given moment. A lot of it is in buckets at any given moment.



Things I wonder about.

Are the bags filled from buckets? In which case they are like the boxes, not drawn from the full pool of treasure.

Are the filled from the mixer? In which case they are drawn from the full mix.




That’s a long winded way of saying “who knows?” I prefer to draw from multiple sources on multiple days, but I can’t say my results from that are any better.

Those buckets are the treasure pool. Bags are filled from those buckets ie the treasure pool. Getting a bag is no different than pulling from the treasure box. Therefore they have no affect on boxes. At various points the boxes are refilled from the buckets. If the bags didn't exist max treasure players would be pulling the same number of tokens from the boxes which would need to be filled from the buckets.

The buckets are made from the treasure pool. The treasure pool is made up of all the tokens from the mixer. There will be some variation from bucket to bucket. If there is, for example, one 25k gold bar in the total pool, that token will only be in one of the buckets. For more plentiful things like monster bits, I agree it makes no significant difference how you pull.

my understanding is ...

"X" spread of tokens go into concrete mixer. when done, they go into bucket.
repeat, but use separate bucket for each "mix".
fill a bunch of buckets.
one whole bucket gets dumped into the pull box.
when pull box is empty, add another bucket; or swap out box using the above method.
100 count boxes are put together from a single bucket until it is empty.
repeat if they want more 100 count boxes.

does that help?

smakdown wrote: my understanding is ...

"X" spread of tokens go into concrete mixer. when done, they go into bucket.
repeat, but use separate bucket for each "mix".
fill a bunch of buckets.
one whole bucket gets dumped into the pull box.
when pull box is empty, add another bucket; or swap out box using the above method.
100 count boxes are put together from a single bucket until it is empty.
repeat if they want more 100 count boxes.

does that help?

If so, there is no difference between the boxes and the bags.

But that only reinforces my desire to draw from multiple sources at multiple times.

Harlax wrote: The buckets are made from the treasure pool. The treasure pool is made up of all the tokens from the mixer. There will be some variation from bucket to bucket. If there is, for example, one 25k gold bar in the total pool, that token will only be in one of the buckets. For more plentiful things like monster bits, I agree it makes no significant difference how you pull.


If so, there is no difference between the boxes and the bags.

At the point the mixer is put into buckets they are the treasure pool (plus any tokens in treasure and rogue boxes).

I have been saying bags and pulls are the same for years, don't know why this discussion continues to happen...lol

jedibcg wrote:

Harlax wrote: The buckets are made from the treasure pool. The treasure pool is made up of all the tokens from the mixer. There will be some variation from bucket to bucket. If there is, for example, one 25k gold bar in the total pool, that token will only be in one of the buckets. For more plentiful things like monster bits, I agree it makes no significant difference how you pull.


If so, there is no difference between the boxes and the bags.

At the point the mixer is put into buckets they are the treasure pool (plus any tokens in treasure and rogue boxes).

I have been saying bags and pulls are the same for years, don't know why this discussion continues to happen...lol

It's all perspective. I agree (and am convinced) that on a global and long term basis your luck should be no different whether you get your treasure from a box or a bag. However, to use Harlax's example. If there is only 1 25K bar in the global pool, then it might be in a treasure box or it might be in a treasure bag, but it can't be in both. It might be in box or bag on Thursday, or Friday or Saturday, but is not going to be available all 3 days. So in his case, he wants to have a shot at that 25K bar no matter what day or source it ended up in. To do that he has to spread around his pulls from all days/sources.

Now, if he knew for certain what day or source that 25K bar would be located, then it would smart to focus all his pulls on that day and/or source. But since it's random, he's trying to cover all his bases. Over the course of several years, that 25K bar can end up in multiple sources and someone focusing on just one source will eventually have it show up in that source. In that particular year, they have a better shot of pulling it. So in the long run the odds are the same no matter what. Of course, that long run could be decades.

In the end, everyone should pull however they like and know that you still have a chance at that special pull.

We will definitely look into having bags of 20 Treasure Tokens at each of the Epilogue stations at Gen Con..and maybe Origins. Allowing folks to pick a bag of 20 tokens out of an opened chest (full of said bags of 20) would be kinda cool -- as it is generally more fun to control your own fate. It would be a bit of a logistics hassle as these bags would not fit into our new Epilogue carts well, but it would probably be worth it at the shows with lots of TE tokens.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.