TOPIC: Monster Trophy Transmute and Kilt Transmute

Fiddy wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Picc wrote: I think the bit percentage was perfect this year but I understand your milage will very.

Dont feel like like looking for it now since I'm on my phone, but I seem to recall Jeff saying the bits would be used for a 4 year transmute this time.


I hope the Grand kilt just drops off the negatives, similar to the amulet of the champion only with 3 star levels rather then just 2 like the UR

Confirm - I have notes saying 4 year (so all 16 bits).

Regarding dropping the negatives, that would imply something like a +6 STR, +6 DEX, +6 CON kilt. That would be something like +3 To Hit/Damage for melee, +3 To Hit Ranged/-3 AC, and +3 Reflex Save, +12 or +15 Hit Points, +3 Fortitude Save.

To me that would be greatly overpowered if you compare it to the Boots at +5 damage. IF it does keep all the stats I suspect it would be closer to +3 stats with no negatives (similar to Amulet of Champion/Stu Pendant).

Although personally I would like to see some more flavor or fun instead of just stats.

Ed

Maybe something more like +2 to three stats, free movement, leaping attack 1/room?

That would be perfect.

So lets turn the question around a bit, assuming the grand kilt was +6 str/dex/con (which to be honest I'd probably advocate for) what do we think would be an appropriate negative to balance it?

-4 charisma?
Extra items added to the recipe cost(fleeceies maybe)?
blocking some other slot?
Can not wear more then X eldrich pieces


Though I'm a bit loathe to suggest an eldrich transmute with negatives.

I'm not sure why we think they would be +6/6/6 - I think it's much more likely tthey'd sum down to come to a net positive:

Tavernbane: +0 STR, -4 DEX, +6 CON
Fatherbane: -2 STR, +6 DEX, -2 CON
?????bane: +4 STR, +0 DEX, -2 CON

Grand Total: +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON

Something like that.

Then there would be some bonus tacked on like +1 to each for a total of +3, or free movement.

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'm not sure why we think they would be +6/6/6 - I think it's much more likely tthey'd sum down to come to a net positive:

Tavernbane: +0 STR, -4 DEX, +6 CON
Fatherbane: -2 STR, +6 DEX, -2 CON
?????bane: +4 STR, +0 DEX, -2 CON

Grand Total: +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON

Something like that....

I dont disagree with your logic, but why would anyone want to make that? It will cost 3 URs + some quantity of trade goods which seems a bad deal to get something weaker then the sum of its parts and equivalent to a single existing UR.

In terms of why I think it might be 6/6/6 the rod/boots/and ring all provided the equivalent power of their component parts + some small bonus. I'll be the first to admit its all speculation though.

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'm not sure why we think they would be +6/6/6 - I think it's much more likely tthey'd sum down to come to a net positive:

Tavernbane: +0 STR, -4 DEX, +6 CON
Fatherbane: -2 STR, +6 DEX, -2 CON
?????bane: +4 STR, +0 DEX, -2 CON

Grand Total: +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON

Something like that....

I dont disagree with your logic, but why would anyone want to make that? It will cost 3 URs + some quantity of trade goods which seems a bad deal to get something weaker then the sum of its parts and equivalent to a single existing UR.

In terms of why I think it might be 6/6/6 the rod/boots/and ring all provided the equivalent power of their component parts + some small bonus. I'll be the first to admit its all speculation though.

Well being on record now saying that con is not as valuable as other stats I think it could be a +3 str +3 dex and +4 con total in the end to me which be a pretty good leg item. Maybe does freedom of movement as well. Or god forbit a cha bonus so we can start doing more then 1 figure for most people.

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'm not sure why we think they would be +6/6/6 - I think it's much more likely tthey'd sum down to come to a net positive:

Tavernbane: +0 STR, -4 DEX, +6 CON
Fatherbane: -2 STR, +6 DEX, -2 CON
?????bane: +4 STR, +0 DEX, -2 CON

Grand Total: +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON

Something like that....

I dont disagree with your logic, but why would anyone want to make that? It will cost 3 URs + some quantity of trade goods which seems a bad deal to get something weaker then the sum of its parts and equivalent to a single existing UR.

In terms of why I think it might be 6/6/6 the rod/boots/and ring all provided the equivalent power of their component parts + some small bonus. I'll be the first to admit its all speculation though.

The boots/rod/ring didn't have penalties on the pieces that they were made from. The Kilt does have penalties on the URs it is made from. The penalties shouldn't just disappear and let you add just the bonuses together.

The Kilt will be the cheapest Eldritch Relic piece to make, taking only 3 URs instead of the more common 4 URs. That would be a reason for it to be a bit weaker than the existing Eldritch items.

Also, the UR you are comparing against is in the neck slot, historically one of the strongest slots. The slot for the Kilt doesn't have a large track record to establish it, but feels like a weaker slot overall.

Fiddy wrote:

Picc wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I'm not sure why we think they would be +6/6/6 - I think it's much more likely tthey'd sum down to come to a net positive:

Tavernbane: +0 STR, -4 DEX, +6 CON
Fatherbane: -2 STR, +6 DEX, -2 CON
?????bane: +4 STR, +0 DEX, -2 CON

Grand Total: +2 STR, +2 DEX, +2 CON

Something like that....

I dont disagree with your logic, but why would anyone want to make that? It will cost 3 URs + some quantity of trade goods which seems a bad deal to get something weaker then the sum of its parts and equivalent to a single existing UR.

In terms of why I think it might be 6/6/6 the rod/boots/and ring all provided the equivalent power of their component parts + some small bonus. I'll be the first to admit its all speculation though.

The boots/rod/ring didn't have penalties on the pieces that they were made from. The Kilt does have penalties on the URs it is made from. The penalties shouldn't just disappear and let you add just the bonuses together.

The Kilt will be the cheapest Eldritch Relic piece to make, taking only 3 URs instead of the more common 4 URs. That would be a reason for it to be a bit weaker than the existing Eldritch items.

Also, the UR you are comparing against is in the neck slot, historically one of the strongest slots. The slot for the Kilt doesn't have a large track record to establish it, but feels like a weaker slot overall.

The other items also gained a small bonus when combined, if the kilts combined at +6 I think dropping some or all of the negative would be a suitable bump (similar to the jump from UR to relic redoubt)

We dont know what the price of the kilt will be, only that it will I involve 3 UR kilts at a minimum. Heck there could be a 4th kilt printed for all we know or a bunch of trade goods/gold.

I agree that the leg slot doesn't have as long a track record as a powerful slot as the neck, but personally I consider the legs (or at least the kilts) insanely powerful.

Not sure if this was mentioned but the Kilt will also count as a part of the Eldritch set bonuses (unless something changes). So stats aside it will be much easier to get to 5th level which adds some inherent value.

Edit: And it will also give you the four set bonus....whatever that will be.

+6/+6/+6 feels too strong.
2/2/2 feels too weak.

So I will guess 4/4/4. I think that is close enough to the power of the boots (which are insanely good). I like the idea of Free Movement tacked on too.

I am also collecting two of each UR Kilt so I can transmute a set and keep a set.

Rob F wrote:
Edit: And it will also give you the four set bonus....whatever that will be.

If there is a 4 piece, all we know for sure at this point is that we dont know

Jeff321 wrote: +6/+6/+6 feels too strong.
2/2/2 feels too weak.

So I will guess 4/4/4. I think that is close enough to the power of the boots (which are insanely good). I like the idea of Free Movement tacked on too.

I am also collecting two of each UR Kilt so I can transmute a set and keep a set.

But could 6/6/6 work with a disadvantage? If so what could it be?

Again at this point it's all just brainstorming.

Picc wrote: But could 6/6/6 work with a disadvantage? If so what could it be?

I don't think it should have one.

Playing a MEC wizard, I have come to rely on Tavernbane for those 15 HP. If the eldritch kilt comes in at anything less than +6 Con, it would be an objectively worse option for most wizard builds (barring some excellent secondary benefits). Without a great secondary benefit (maybe the eldritch set bonus is good enough, but I’m not sure), it would be hard to justify mulching 3 URs for a major HP hit. I would probably keep Tavernbane under those circumstances and pass on making the eldritch kilt for my wizard. But maybe that’s what Jeff will be going for - making us deal with hard choices.