TOPIC: Redoubt set vs. Templar Set?

I just got a closer look at the 2016 tokens and noticed the Redoubt set and it's bonuses. As a lvl 5 paladin with the Templar set, I'm trying to decide which I like better.

The Redoubt set has +19 to AC, +2 STR, and +5 HP, but at a cost of -2 to all Saves.

The Templar set has +16 to AC and Regen. 3 at each room.

I have to wonder if it's worth the hit to my Saves and loss of Regeneration for a +3 AC and Extra 5HP. The STR boost doesn't matter much to me as I tend to run a more defensive style.

Any thought? I wonder how the value of each set will be as well.....

LeRoy Byrd wrote: I just got a closer look at the 2016 tokens and noticed the Redoubt set and it's bonuses. As a lvl 5 paladin with the Templar set, I'm trying to decide which I like better.

The Redoubt set has +19 to AC, +2 STR, and +5 HP, but at a cost of -2 to all Saves.

The Templar set has +16 to AC and Regen. 3 at each room.

I have to wonder if it's worth the hit to my Saves and loss of Regeneration for a +3 AC and Extra 5HP. The STR boost doesn't matter much to me as I tend to run a more defensive style.

Any thought? I wonder how the value of each set will be as well.....

I think it partially depends on the difficulty you run and those you are playing with.

Saves are more important than AC at higher difficulties, is the general rule.

Templar set is a max of 18 extra HP per adventure. If you avoid damage in early rooms, it's less. In a sense, it's only a max of 13 HP more than Redoubt. That's an effect easily replaced with a handful of heal potions.

If you only play once or twice a year, or run with an eldritch/lenses healer, you might not care about extra pots.

Otherwise, maybe you do.

As for the +3 AC vs -2 saves: that's a function of your current AC and saves. Many DMs will swing at the squishier party members, so your saves may come into play more than your AC. Especially if you play puzzle more than combat.

So there are more variables to consider.

I like Templar, but I don't love it. Some do.

For Barbarian, they can't wear Templar Armor anyway, so Redoubt is awesome. The +2 STR (for the + to hit) is significant to me.

For Fighter/Paladin/Cleric, it's closer. The Templar set still remains a good option.

But if you transmute the Redoubt Plate/Mail to Relic, you get +1 AC and don't have the Reflex saves penalty. That's what I plan to do, so it makes the decision on which set to use easier.

I am debating on whether to sell my Templar set, however.

Don't forget to factor in the set bonus. +2 to Strength and +5 hp. How important is the +1 to hit and damage to you?

I run a Nightmare Paladin and I have ditched all my AC items except the Templar set. It was only a drop of ~4AC, but I have noticed no difference in play, so I place a lot less importance on AC and more on Saves than most other people I've read on here...

I agree with the statement that it really boils down to two things:
1) The AC vs Saves
2) The HP gain vs +2 Str and +5 Max HP

For me, Saves win out all the time, so the new UR Redoubt set loses out right there because of the -2 to all Saves. The first upgrading of the armor only gets rid of the Reflex hit, but the helm/shield still keep there Will/Fort detriments. The second upgrade of the armor consumes the helm and shield so you lose the set bonus as well as their AC and Save detriment unless you have two copies of the helm and shield to begin with. In the end, the Templar set gives you 16 AC. Redoubt set gives you 19/20/22(13) AC for the set of UR/Exalted/Legendary(without extra helm/shield and no set bonus).

Winner: Templar Set

Strength is always nice. Getting a +2 for a +1 to hit and damage is always great. Five extra max hit points is kinda cool too (granted, I would have made it +2 Con to benefit from any future level changes). I grab HP items for any slot I have nothing better to do with. However, I take a lot of damage. Not because I'm getting hit (and using AC) but because I'm taking puzzle fail damage (and using Saves), or room push damage. Three hit points is a nice little chunk to get back every room. Pair that with the Greater Alchemist Pouch and I can usually sit back in the corner all quite like when the cleric comes around asking who needs healing. Minimizing the need to healing spells really goes a long way in helping my party deal with damage.

Winner: Templar Set

So for me: Saves over AC and healing over strength/HP. Plus this means I can spend my UR purchases this year on catching up on what I didn't get last year...

If I had (or could obtain a Templar set near the cost of 3 PYPs), I might go with Templar

But my choice is between the redoubt set and the defender set.

I lose free action, but the new pants slot cares for that.
I lose the 1 AC set bonus, but the redoubt gains more than care for that.
I gain +2 Str and 5 hp. Nice
I will be transmuting the plate, so no worries on the reflex save penalty.

The big downside is losing the +1 to all saves from the defender helm. So I take an effective -3 to fort and will.

I'm not so worried about fort. I like to play dwarf fighter, so fort is already pretty high. Plus I'm adding +2 Con from Icecrag Hero Earcuffs, so I get 1 back. End result is +16 Fort. I'm good with that.

Will drops to +7 on my build. Not ideal. I could offset that by adding a charm of enlightenment, by swapping a Charm Bracelet for Bracers of Fire. Then I could add a Dracolich Charm as well. Hmmmm.

So overall +7 to AC, 5 hp, +2 Str, +1 to Will and -2 to Fort.

I'm sticking with my beloved Templar set.

Our Cleric and Paladin will stick with the Templar Armor - it is just too fitting to their characters. Just like my Druid is sticking with the full Dragonscale Armor.

I play a Barbarian so the full Templar set is out of the question obviously but I am interested in the parts of the Templar set I can use...The Templar Helm and or Templar Shield? Need some guidance here as I am a bit out of my league with understanding the pros and cons. Want to make a wise decision since either can be a bit pricey. This leads me to my next question.. What price range should I expect to pay with a Templar shield or Templar helm? And who would be the best to get it from?... So many people now selling with huge lists it is just a little overwhelming. Thank you!

Arthur wrote: I play a Barbarian so the full Templar set is out of the question obviously but I am interested in the parts of the Templar set I can use...The Templar Helm and or Templar Shield? Need some guidance here as I am a bit out of my league with understanding the pros and cons. Want to make a wise decision since either can be a bit pricey. This leads me to my next question.. What price range should I expect to pay with a Templar shield or Templar helm? And who would be the best to get it from?... So many people now selling with huge lists it is just a little overwhelming. Thank you!

I'm far from an expert, but it seems to me, unless you intend to use the Helm, Shield, & Armor, you just have to compare the AC bonus you will get from the parts you do use.

I paid about $380 for my Templar set.I see the average for the Templar set around the same price now. But you can use someones PYP to pick up the basic Redoubt set and have a slightly higher AC bonus.

Overall I like the Templar Set. 16 AC is solid for my Figher, and I like the heal bonus it provides. Saves my Druid from having to waste heals on me.

You just have to compare your financial restrictions with your character build and see what you are able/willing to do.

Arthur wrote: I play a Barbarian so the full Templar set is out of the question obviously but I am interested in the parts of the Templar set I can use...The Templar Helm and or Templar Shield? Need some guidance here as I am a bit out of my league with understanding the pros and cons. Want to make a wise decision since either can be a bit pricey. This leads me to my next question.. What price range should I expect to pay with a Templar shield or Templar helm? And who would be the best to get it from?... So many people now selling with huge lists it is just a little overwhelming. Thank you!

If I were the Barbarian, I'd go with the Redoubt Set all day long, you get the +2 STR and +4 (or 5?) HP bonus. You get these bonuses even while equipping a 2 handed melee weapon as long as you put the shield in your ranged offhand slot and use something like the Mighty Sling as your ranged weapon.


You can see tokens and determine what classes can use them in the TokenDB:

tokendb.com/

So - as a Barbarian, your best in slot AC options without transmuting to Relic or Legendary armor are:

Torso: Redoubt Mail: +7 AC, -2 Reflex
Head: Redoubt Helm +4 AC, -2 Will or Templar Helm +3 AC
Shield: Redoubt Shield +4 AC, -2 Fort or Templar Shield +4 AC or +1 Tower Shield +4 AC

So, Redoubt Set:
+15 AC, -2 saves, +2 STR, +4 (or 5?) HP

Not Redoubt Set:
+14 AC, -2 REFLEX

I would trade -2 WILL and FORT for +1 AC, +2 STR, and +4 (or 5) HP.