TOPIC: Last year for the Arcane Recipe tokens...

Jeff:
1. I think you should make a set of artifacts that people can pick from.
2. Let the community help with design balance.

So far, so the same as your idea . . .
3. The primary design goal should be remove GPs from the economy.
4. The design goal should be to make artifacts +3 items (more powerful than URs by +1). I think this was your original intention.
5. Design nine (9) artifacts to start with.
6. Make three (3) new artifacts each year, but let (most) of the previous ones be available.
7. Auction off nine (9) each year.
8. Make bidders stand in a line from most to least with a post-it with their bid on it.
9. Let multiple people select the same artifact. This will make it easier for the GMs to know what they do.
10. I would make them tradable. Trading is fun.
11. This would remove more gold from the economy (I think).
12. This would let more folks play in the "big-time".

I like the artifact idea. I like it a lot. But here are some things that I'd like to add.

1) Decide before this year's Gencon what the exact nature of these artifacts are and then stick to them. You have a great community online and they should help hammer out any problems before the con (rule, slots, set up wise)

2) Have the great inventor search. Or better yet, narrow down the three slots you wish to make artifacts for for 2012 Gencon and then have those playing in TD this year have a vote in its design. Maybe for every run you get one vote. So for example if we had a ring as an example everyone would get a vote on its properties. The properties could be narrowed down before Gencon 2011.

i.e. Ring

Choose one

a) +3 to AC
b) fly
c) +5 acid damage to melee

Choose one

a) -1 to fort save
b) -2 hp
c) -1 to AC

This is just an example but you could make a list of powerful effects and a few minor (but important) drawbacks.

Rafiq

these might be good ideas for the proposed relic tokens coming out in 2012, but i believe that the artifacts should be entirely up to the creators' imaginations...subject to jmartin's approval.

Smak,

I meant the relic tokens. I thought they were going to be artifacts, just not the major ones that were up to the individual to create. My bad.

Rafiq

to be honest, i wasn't sure if they would all be called the same thing or not. you and darkrose50 do have some really good ideas though.

Rafiq wrote: I like the artifact idea. I like it a lot. But here are some things that I'd like to add.

1) Decide before this year's Gencon what the exact nature of these artifacts are and then stick to them. You have a great community online and they should help hammer out any problems before the con (rule, slots, set up wise)

2) Have the great inventor search. Or better yet, narrow down the three slots you wish to make artifacts for for 2012 Gencon and then have those playing in TD this year have a vote in its design. Maybe for every run you get one vote. So for example if we had a ring as an example everyone would get a vote on its properties. The properties could be narrowed down before Gencon 2011.

i.e. Ring

Choose one

a) +3 to AC
b) fly
c) +5 acid damage to melee

Choose one

a) -1 to fort save
b) -2 hp
c) -1 to AC

This is just an example but you could make a list of powerful effects and a few minor (but important) drawbacks.

Rafiq

The basic concept is OK, but none of those are more powerful than a purple, so I doubt interest in them would be very high.

Xavon,

Got a better idea?

Maybe we should discuss this at Gencon.





















In the parking lot.




















Bring a weapon.

Love Rafiq

my thoughts on the relic idea:

-more powerful than UR, but less than artifact (ie. single person affecting, but better than UR)

-design a bunch of them right away, but release only 3 each year...i think it was jeff that mentioned doing something like this, to allow everyone to see what would be coming up in future years and save GP for it. not sure how many to start with, or about adding more to the end of the queue. maybe we should just design 30 right off, and release them over the next 10 years? or design 12, for the next 4 years, and then design 3 more each year (to be release 4 years later) until jeff decides to do something else.

-make 5 of each relic, putting one (maybe two) in the treasure box to be drawn over the weekend, and the rest in the auction.

-they should be tradeable, but not borrowable. please correct me if you think i am wrong, but i dont expect these to change hands very often. so it would be possible to keep a database of current owners, and only let that person use the relic ('ownership' can officially change between conventions).

-relics should be special. a +3 weapon isnt really that exciting, a +2 short sword of fire and ice, however, would be totally awesome. for people who want to see +3 weapons, i suggest an UR +3 with some drawback for balance. i want to see relics be jaw-droppingly good, not something that just needs a tiny drawback to pass as an UR. this would also help entice big spending at the auction.

My question is what power level are we looking for? I know Smak's item is a +1 level item. The most powerful or sought after UR is the Horn of Plenty. So it should fit between the two?

I like the sword of fire and ice! Would it do bonus fire and cold damage? What would the + be? +3 Bastard Sword of Fire and Ice (+5 fire and +5 cold damage). Is this too powerful, not powerful enough?

4-Leaf Clover Ring: +4 to all (fort, reflex, will) saves, +4 hp, +4 to AC. This seems a bit strong.

Rafiq wrote: Xavon,
Got a better idea?

Two of them (at least IMHO). They're about three pages back.

Rafiq wrote: Maybe we should discuss this at Gencon.

But, will Jeff and the TD team have time to talk about this at the con?

Rafiq wrote: In the parking lot.

Which one?

Rafiq wrote: Bring a weapon.

But my statue is too fragile to carry to the con. Maybe I can still find one of the action figure versions that came out a few years back. Should I look for Ultima, Oemga, Ruby, or Emerald?

Rafiq wrote: My question is what power level are we looking for? I know Smak's item is a +1 level item. The most powerful or sought after UR is the Horn of Plenty. So it should fit between the two?

I'd say Widseth's Rapier is a better comparison, because it also effects only the owner. The Rapier is arguably the power of three URs (HoP, +1 Mithral Sword, and +1 Dancing Sword), but costs a rare each year. So, say just over 2 URs in power?

Rafiq wrote: I like the sword of fire and ice! Would it do bonus fire and cold damage? What would the + be? +3 Bastard Sword of Fire and Ice (+5 fire and +5 cold damage). Is this too powerful, not powerful enough?

How about a +3 Bastard Sword of Fire and Ice (+3 Fire/+3 Ice), but with the option to shut off the fire and/or the ice damage at will (in case the monster happens to be healed by either damage)?

Rafiq wrote: 4-Leaf Clover Ring: +4 to all (fort, reflex, will) saves, +4 hp, +4 to AC. This seems a bit strong.

I would say drop the AC and it will be fine. It is still better than the Dragonheart and the Cloak of Stars combined, but it is also in a preferable slot.

well, i think that estimate of widseth's artifact is a bit low. slotless HOP, slotless mithral item, free attack with +2 long sword each round (doesnt even count as a 'free action' if we are limited to one per turn), ability to attack monsters you cant reach. dropping the HOP ability and mithral-ness would put it more in the range i would expect for relics (a free attack is REALLY good).

as for the fire and ice, i was thinking something like:
+2 short sword of fire and ice: (7,8,9,10,11,12), 2pts fire and 2pts
cold damage included on damage wheel.

it isnt meant to be super-insane, but a +2 short sword with +4 damage (of two different types) is much better than any UR weapon.


and some other ideas (even though this is way too early, i cant help but start thinking of what the relics could do):

+2 vicious bastard sword: (9,9,10,11,12,13,13,13,16,17) does 3pts
damage to weilder whenever they hit something with this.

seeking hand crossbow: 4 damage, does not miss. you do not have to
slide, simply tell DM you are firing this. you may use an ammo token.

General's Plate Armor: +8AC, +2 dex, +2 str, +5hp (fighter, cleric, paladin)

spirit armor: double your dex bonus to AC, automatically succeed all
reflex save throws. (all)


also, how about a charm for each class:

charm of the scoundrel: at end of each combat round, may use a ranged
weapon as a free action. (rogue)

charm of versatility: +1 str, +1 dex, +1 hp, +1 damage with ranged
weapons, may use divine scrolls, and choose an additional creature
type as a favored enemy. (ranger)

charm of stiking: at beginning of combat, choose any area of the
combat board. as long as it hits, that area counts as a crit for you.
(fighter)

charm of sorcery: +2 int (increase skill check damage bonus by 1), and
scrolls are treated the same as spells cast off your character card.
(wizard)

charm of rage: may use a two-handed melee weapon with one hand, or if
using a two-handed weapon in both hands, double rage bonus damage.
(barbarian)

charm of neccessity: once per dungeon, you may bring a dead character
back to life with full hit points. also, for the remainder of that
room, all your heal spells restore their target to full health. (cleric)

charm of the wild: +2 to hit and +10 max hp while polymorphed (gain
10hp when changing). once per dungeon, may turn into dire wolf
(6,8,10,10,12,14). (druid)

charm of dance: +3 dex, may use dex bonus to hit with melee instead of str bonus, and activates bardsong ability allowing bard to take any other actions. (bard)

charm of the protector: may use guard ability to protect two characters. also, when using sacrifice, may save any number of other characters (ie. if multiple characters die to the same attack). (paladin)

charm of the master: +1 character level, +5 to saves, and 50% magic immunity. (monk)

kurtreznor wrote: as for the fire and ice, i was thinking something like:
+2 short sword of fire and ice: (7,8,9,10,11,12), 2pts fire and 2pts
cold damage included on damage wheel.

it isnt meant to be super-insane, but a +2 short sword with +4 damage (of two different types) is much better than any UR weapon.

I wouldn't say that this is 'much' better than a UR. The damage bonus is only one higher than the +2 Short Sword of the Sun. It is arguably more universal, but creatures could resist (or worse absorb) one or both of Fire and Cold damage. And the damage bonus from the 'Sun' effect is not typed.

Did I already suggest the Gnomish Mechbow?

How about:

Argent Weave Gi (armor, Monk): DR 3/all types except push/eldritch damage, +3 melee damage, always strike first in combat, immune to any effect that allows a Fort save, cannot use charms