TOPIC: Ultra Rare Combo Item - Supreme Ring of Elemental Command

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<br />Jeff, thanks for releasing the Eldritch Power details - I'm not sure if you should feel obligated to always release all details at the start of set abilities, but I can see it was necessary in this case since the investment is so high (4 Ultra-Rares for the Supreme Ring, 7 Ultra-Rares for the Rod), and the Supreme Ring is fairly weak, so you needed to show that the investment will pay off in a few years.  <br /><br />I wonder if the 2 Item Eldritch Set will be able to be passed around like the Ring of Focus is.  For instance, if I (the Druid) has the two Eldritch Items, can I hand them to the Cleric at the end of a Room, have the Cleric cast a bunch of healing spells at +10 points of healing per spell, and them get them back before we go into the next room?  <br /><br />I'm looking forward to going to 6th Level in a few years, although I'll bet I'll have to give up my Dragonscale Armor set to do so, if the Rod of 7 Parts takes a weapon slot.  I hope that it is slotless, like the segments are.  <br />

<br /><br />I hope it can't be passed around - to me that would sort of "cheapen" it.  I think it should be like the AoW or HoP - you can be the only bearer if you want the effects.<br />

<br /><br />The pattern has been if it raises a level it cannot be traded.  <br />

<br /><br />When was that pattern established?  We are only now getting to items that raise levels, other than Smak's Artifact - and that can't be passed around because nobody can use the Artifacts except the people the Artifacts are soul-bonded to.  I'm not saying I want it to be able to be passed around, just that I think we're establishing those precedents now. 

2008 AoW started the precedent.  Furthermore, Jeff has stated that if an item gives a level, it cannot be taken off.

Ah.  I'm still not sure that applies to Eldritch Items, since they are new.  I guess it's no hurry since we're over a year away from having one, and I expect Jeff will come out with some guidelines for them before they are introduced.  I'd guess that individual Eldtritch Items could be passed from person to person, but Jeff could also say that they couldn't.  And, it might not even involve going up a level.  The Wizard could pass them to the Cleric, and the level increase wouldn't impact either of them. 

<br />Now addressing the Supreme Ring of Elemental Command Combo power...I am sorry that the Combo power is not a big power, but if I want to give the two-item Eldritch Set power something really cool, then for balance I have to make the Supreme Ring kind of weak.  Remember all the concern earlier this week about getting too powerful of Ultra Rares?  Your advice holds true here as well.  I did not want to announce the two-piece Eldritch power until later (Ring plus Rod), but I guess it needs to be done now.  I won't announce the Rod of 7 Parts set power, however, until the 7th part is revealed.<br />

<br /><br />I for one have never complained that URs are too powerful...   I don't believe a power creep is even possible in TD, because this is not a static TCG.  Characters get stronger, this monsters get stronger, so naturally the loot should get better.   And if the loot somehow ends up more powerful than expected, the monsters can be tweaked to match.<br /><br />I also feel that the ring should still be worth it for those who choose not to (or possibly are unable to) acquire any other Eldritch items.  <br /><br />Finally, I ask: is my (original) suggested upgrade really that broken?  One more revenge damage and the missing element?<br /><br />

<br />Note:  The recipe for the making the Supreme Ring of Elemental Command includes all four different Elemental Rings as well as one each of every Trade Item (like Darkwood Plank, Minotaur Hide) but no Monster Ingredient tokens like Stone Spider Fang or Orc Ear.<br />

<br /><br />Which is a huge commitment if the return is limited to the Eldritch Set power.  Especially if there are really going to be three or four new trade items this year.  Will the Rod require more than just the seven individual pieces?<br /><br />

<br /><br />Two-Piece Eldritch Set Power:  By carrying two items of Eldritch power, a character is infused with the very ancient and powerful druidical magic which has not been conjured for many millennia.  Character spell casters ignore any monster's Spell Resistance, healing spells do +10 points of healing and melee attacks ignore any damage resistance.  Any Druid or Ranger with two Eldritch items gains one character level.<br /><br />

<br /><br />Is that +10 healing for spells cast on the user or spells cast by the user?  Or both?

This new Eldrich stuff is way cool!!  I want to go on record as being very impressed.

<br /><br />I for one have never complained that URs are too powerful...   I don't believe a power creep is even possible in TD, because this is not a static TCG.  Characters get stronger, this monsters get stronger, so naturally the loot should get better.   And if the loot somehow ends up more powerful than expected, the monsters can be tweaked to match.<br />

<br /><br />Power creep is in fact possible, and has happened.  For people like us on the forums, power creep is not a major issue, Jeff can expect us to have 25 + AC, weapons for every scenario, and the tokens necessary to figure out a puzzle.  But people with only 1 starter pack of tokens have none of the power that we TD faithful have.  This is where power creep becomes a problem.  I am fairly sure this is why every party will be getting a "seed bag" of tokens.  This will insure that everyone who enters the dungeon will be brought up to a minimum standard of stats that will allow a chance of survival.  They will also have tokens like 50' rope that may or may not be useful for solving a puzzle.  Power creep will still affect these new players, even with the seed bags.  For example:<br /><br />Jeff designs a Green Slime encounter.  He knows that he sent out 10,000 Charm of Awareness as a PYP.  Because the forumites cannot be surprised, Jeff decides that the Slime will be on the floor instead of the ceiling.  A forumite may notice that the color of a particular tile is off, and avoid that tile (and not take the entry damage) where a new player does not notice that color difference, and steps into the slime.  In this case power creep affected the new players, as it made the encounter be redesigned (the slime doesn't drop from the ceiling like Jeff originally wanted).<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />Is that +10 healing for spells cast on the user or spells cast by the user?  Or both?<br />

<br /><br />According to the way Jeff wrote it, it is spells cast BY the user.<br />"Character spell casters . . . healing spells do +10 points of healing . . ."

The ruling was made that the AoW or HoP cannot be pased around - why would the Eldritch items be allowed to be passed around.  I think that would make them way too powerful.

<br />The ruling was made that the AoW or HoP cannot be pased around - why would the Eldritch items be allowed to be passed around.  I think that would make them way too powerful.<br />

<br /><br />Well, the Supreme Ring of Elemental Command seems fairly weak by itself, just preventing 5 elemental damage and doing 2 damage to monsters that hit the wearer in melee - that amount of damage prevention and dealing will seem pretty minor once everyone starts going up levels and increases in HP.  So, I don't see any harm done if the Supreme Ring of Elemental Command by itself were able to be passed from player to player, like the current Elemental Rings can be.  <br /><br />I don't know how powerful the Rod of 7 Parts will be - perhaps it will also be low-power to make up for the Eldritch set abilities?  <br /><br />Once the Eldritch Sets can be made, then it becomes more problematic for the individual Eldtritch Items to be passed around. 

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<br /><br />I for one have never complained that URs are too powerful...   I don't believe a power creep is even possible in TD, because this is not a static TCG.  Characters get stronger, this monsters get stronger, so naturally the loot should get better.   And if the loot somehow ends up more powerful than expected, the monsters can be tweaked to match.<br />

<br />Jeff designs a Green Slime encounter.  He knows that he sent out 10,000 Charm of Awareness as a PYP.  Because the forumites cannot be surprised, Jeff decides that the Slime will be on the floor instead of the ceiling.  A forumite may notice that the color of a particular tile is off, and avoid that tile (and not take the entry damage) where a new player does not notice that color difference, and steps into the slime.  In this case power creep affected the new players, as it made the encounter be redesigned (the slime doesn't drop from the ceiling like Jeff originally wanted).<br />

<br /><br />1. Surprised is a state in D&D.  It means you loose initiative automatically and don't get to attack the first round.  It does not protect you from having a monster fall on your back, it just means you can attack as the same time.  I know TD doesn't always follow D&D rules, but this was how all four DMs I played with ran the two EH fights, so until I hear (read) otherwise, I have to assume it works the same.<br /><br />2. Being a forumite and using purps are not the same thing.  The forumite could still know about the green slime even if they do not have or use the charm to counter it.  Similarly, one could own a CoA and not follow the lore or use the forums, and thus not be aware it was coming.<br /><br />3. That is why there is Normal and Nightmare (and possibly Beginner, Expert, and Nightmare in the future).  Different setups for different power levels.<br /><br />

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<br />Is that +10 healing for spells cast on the user or spells cast by the user?  Or both?<br />

<br /><br />According to the way Jeff wrote it, it is spells cast BY the user.<br />"Character spell casters . . . healing spells do +10 points of healing . . ."<br />

<br /><br />So I would assume as well, but I still think clarification wouldn't hurt.

<br /><br />Two-Piece Eldritch Set Power:  By carrying two items of Eldritch power, a character is infused with the very ancient and powerful druidical magic which has not been conjured for many millennia.  Character spell casters ignore any monster's Spell Resistance, healing spells do +10 points of healing and melee attacks ignore any damage resistance.  Any Druid or Ranger with two Eldritch items gains one character level.<br />

<br /><br /><br />Jeff, I think you should retain flexibility to adapt things (especially if the play environment changes over the years). Maybe a decent compromise would be to give players a basic idea of what the set power will be (+1 level or anti-undead, etc.). Even if you give a preliminary idea, you should still leave a little bit of wiggle-room if it is needed. Now on to the Eldritch set:<br /><br />#1. I'm guessing the +1 level does not stack with other + level effects (most notably Might)?<br /><br />#2. I like the idea of combating Spell Resistance and Damage Resistance, but I'm not sure if ignoring it completely is the best way to go. (Otherwise, for tough monsters you'll need to come up with some other gimmick to make them challenging). Maybe instead of ignoring it all, it would ignore a substantial amount? Like ignore 50% of Spell Resistance and the first 10 points of Damage Reduction. Etc.<br /><br />#3. At first glance, the healing ability sounds really strong. But I think a major factor will be how much HP players will have (after reaching 4th level). If players are regularly reaching the 30+ HP mark (especially with the Boots of Might and Wil's Dragonheart Charm), then those 1 pt Cure Minors will need the boost. But if the HP gain is only moderate, then +10 seems strong. This is something we'll probably have to wait and see.

I'd guess all the different +1 level abilities do stack.  That would be good for Jeff to clarify at some point. 

<br />I'd guess all the different +1 level abilities do stack.  That would be good for Jeff to clarify at some point.  <br />

<br /><br />Well, I think it's previously been stated that they *don't* stack.<br /><br />Most notably, the Deck of Many Things +1 level (for Bridgette) and Smak's Artifact (+1 level). <br /><br />Between those, the Might set, and the Eldritch set, I don't think we really want to see +4 level...