TOPIC: 2027 Treasure Token Details FINAL

Raven wrote:

Corey Pressler wrote: My concern with the current slotless Codex design is that it unintentionally encourages duplicate purchases rather than meaningful choices.

As things stand, high-end players are strongly incentivized to acquire two of each Codex: one set to transmute the Familiar, and a second set to retain the permanent slotless +2 to STR / DEX / CON. At higher difficulty levels, passing on permanent slotless stats simply isn’t a real option.

This creates a situation where the optimal path isn’t about build diversity or playstyle, but about mandatory duplication. The Familiar itself is interesting, but the real power lies in the permanent slotless stat bonuses, which accelerates power creep and widens the gap between players without adding new gameplay depth.

I worry this turns what should feel like a premium reward into an expected cost of staying competitive, rather than a meaningful design choice.

What are some options?

1. Remove the stat bonus from the Codexes, knowing year 3 auctions might tank.
2. Bring back the expiration.
3. Apply the stat bonus to only Year 3, to protect token sales.
4. Choose different stat bonuses that aren't going to set the peak of power stats in the game. Or special powers.

I came here to say ^^ this, but I think you put it into words better than I could, Corey.
(With the exception that - like Ben - I think #1 is mitigated by having a use for the extra codexes as an "any 4" transmute.)

I think the Familiar idea is really cool, and part of me hopes there's a Raven familiar (even tho my budget is voting against it!)... but if I'm competing with folks who want to get 2 codexes each year, I don't think it'll be an option at all.

My guess is the only people that will double up on these are the same completionist that currently get one of every token and would have picked up 2 anyway.

Scott Kwiker wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I would support only being able to equip 1 codex, I still want a permanent stat bump on all of them though.

+1

Max 1 in a build solves the problem. Having the recipe allow for “any four” largely solves the kind of situation that we’re running into now, but I think having a stat bump on the token is nice so long as you can’t equip more than one Codex.

That doesn't solve the problem of a section of the players feeling like they have to buy at least 2 during one of the years to continue to progress their character build.

Kusig wrote:

Scott Kwiker wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I would support only being able to equip 1 codex, I still want a permanent stat bump on all of them though.

+1

Max 1 in a build solves the problem. Having the recipe allow for “any four” largely solves the kind of situation that we’re running into now, but I think having a stat bump on the token is nice so long as you can’t equip more than one Codex.

That doesn't solve the problem of a section of the players feeling like they have to buy at least 2 during one of the years to continue to progress their character build.

Maybe include language on the Familiar which say, "This token cannot be equipped with any of its component Codex tokens." (or something along those lines)...

Issue is that is one of space, as they're trying to fit everything on the token, and that would complicate things.

Ben Krupa wrote: Issue is that is one of space, as they're trying to fit everything on the token, and that would complicate things.

That wasn’t an issue with the Cavadar or Rod of 7 Parts, though…

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I don't agree with this at all. It's very easy for someone to enjoy the True Dungeon experience with a basic set of Greens/Reds. Or no Tokens at all doing just a sealed pack run. It's definitely not pay to win. Not at all. Players are not competing against one another and there's multiple difficulty levels. If there was only one difficulty level and you needed a lot of money to sink into Tokens to survive I'd agree. But that's simply not the case.

I agree that it's possible to to enjoy TD with a starter pack or a rare build. However, being possible to enjoy it that way is not the reputation of TD from my personal experience. I like to idly chat with people at the airport and talk about what games everyone is playing. I encounter many more people that think that the only way to win a run is to have a build worth 1000s, and that if you don't run full TE, why bother.

You're battling perception, not truth.

Rob F wrote: And I also don't agree that high-end players won't be able to "keep up" if they can't afford a Token or two that boost their stats by a few points. This argument of "I want to be able to fully maximize my character build or I'm going to quit buying Tokens because I'm missing a point or two of power is utterly ridiculous." Insert violin playing sad tune here for those that can't afford every Token they want. Maybe I'm wrong. If so please convince me that not having a Codex token won't allow a high end player to compete at the highest difficulty level? If you don't have a compelling argument here then all it comes down to is people whining that they can't afford a Token they want.

Do you HAVE to have both an attribute codex AND a familiar to play mythic? Probably not. But if you're a high end player willing to spend 1000s to be at the top end of the build level, this change means you suddenly feel pressed to buy 2 of each codex. In this mindset, every slotless token must be purchased because there is no build cost or build tradeoff to equipping it. Yes, the player could just accept not having the top end possible of build. They could also choose to stop buying new tokens. In the end, it's up to Jeff to decide if it's worth the risk to have the codexes have a slotless attribute bonus in addition to being part of a transmute. How many people will quit buying with that change? Hard to say, but the number is probably not zero.

If I were Jeff and a player came up to me and said they will quit buying Tokens if I designed one they could not afford (or a set they could not afford) I would tell them to have a nice day and then open up Spotify on my phone and start playing sad violin music really loud as I walked away.

Kusig wrote:

Scott Kwiker wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I would support only being able to equip 1 codex, I still want a permanent stat bump on all of them though.

+1

Max 1 in a build solves the problem. Having the recipe allow for “any four” largely solves the kind of situation that we’re running into now, but I think having a stat bump on the token is nice so long as you can’t equip more than one Codex.

That doesn't solve the problem of a section of the players feeling like they have to buy at least 2 during one of the years to continue to progress their character build.

If those section of players feel like they need to buy at least 2 during one of the years to continue to progress their character build then they should just buy them. Problem solved.

Are the names for all the future tokens locked? I'd love for a few name changes on the Transmutes. Arcanum Ioun Stone and Mask of Easy Boon feel like we could cook up something a little better over the next 3 / 4 years.