TOPIC: 2026 Ultra Rare Tokens <= Almost Ready for the Printer!

Endgame wrote:

edwin wrote: That is already happening with several tokens each year. Worth while are the greaves transmute, manual, earcuff transmute, path, mark, etc.

If you do not make things worth while then there is no reason to get/support.

If things are too difficult then people leave. Safehold cost were increased and now you have folks already worried about being able to find a group to do mythic.

Again, you have to define worthwhile, and I think what a lot of people call "worthwhile" is just a synonym for creep. Once you have a UR in a slot, you shouldn't ever need to buy another that does the same thing - you should need to go up to Relic to get a pure upgrade. For example, we shouldn't see 6 STR UR gloves because Mithral Gauntlets and DK Gauntlets exist. but a relic with 6 STR would be fine. Now, that said, it's totally OK to have Gauntlets of Divine Guidance at UR, as they do something different.

Continuing the comparison, the Gauntlets of Divine Guidance are just pure creep over Gloves of Weapon Finesse and shouldn't have been printed the way they ended up. Token development failed to address the creep there - As I recall, earlier versions of Gauntlets of Divine Guidance had been +2 hit and Split healing, or +2 hit and +2 healing. Both of those would have been different than existing options at UR, but not superior.

Perhaps Gloves of Weapon Finesse were just underpowered to begin with? I think I'd take +4 St over +3 to hit in Melee every time, plus both +4 St Gauntlets are part of a set with a set bonus. Gauntlets of Divine Guidance seem on-par with Mithral Gauntlets.

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Thanks, Jeff!

It's still concerning that if you have the accursed set, the UR Belt of the Accursed is identical to the Relic Girdle of Frost Giant Strength. That's a lot of power creep and a full two points better than the Girdle of Hill Giant Strength. I recommend dropping it to +4 ST, at that it would still be the best UR Strength Waist token.

If you're going to count the set bonus effect against the individual tokens, the Ultra Rare Girdle of Might grants +4 to STR and +1 to saves for Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Fighters, Monk, and Paladin (along with a ton of other stuff), as the Might set +1 level bonus comes with +2 STR for those classes.

If Girdle of Might is fine to add +1 level, +2 STR, and +1 saves when evaluating the effect of an item and its set bonus as if those were the only considerations, this token is surely fine to add +5 STR.

Even without the set bonus, +5 ST and -2 Wis is overpowered, far better than any other UR belt. +4 ST -2 WIS would be more comparable with existing UR belts. It would be more of a choice than an obvious upgrade.

There's a +4 STR, -1 Reflex UR belt already.

So +5 STR, -2 will (which is a more valuable save than Reflex) is not obviously more powerful than that. In fact, it's worse if your final strength ends up odd.

It's not "far better" than any other UR belt. Slapping +1 STR, +1 Reflex, -2 Will onto any random token does not make it "far better."

Matthew, I don't see a +4 STR, -1 Reflex UR belt in TokenDB. Are you referring to the Girdle of Stone Giant Strength? That is +4 St and -1 Dex, which is pretty comparable to the Girdle of Hill Giant St by adding a point of Strength and subtracting a point of Dex. I just think it's a mistake to get to a Relic level St bonus of +5, even with the -2 Will saves disadvantage. I understand if we have to agree to disagree on that.

Thanks for the feedback all!

That +4 STR -1 Reflex save belt is here:

tokendb.com/token/girdle-of-stone-giant-strength/

The reason I think that the +5 STR -2 Will save is appropriate is because not all saves are created equal. There are a lot less items that increase Wisdom (modifies Will saves) vs Dex and Con (for Reflex and Fort saves), AND Will saves tend to be big "save or you are screwed" saves so a -2 to Will saves is MUCH more than double of a penalty than -1 to Reflex saves. Hence, I think the +5 is warranted on two "one slot" items.

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback all!

That +4 STR -1 Reflex save belt is here:

tokendb.com/token/girdle-of-stone-giant-strength/

The reason I think that the +5 STR -2 Will save is appropriate is because not all saves are created equal. There are a lot less items that increase Wisdom (modifies Will saves) vs Dex and Con (for Reflex and Fort saves), AND Will saves tend to be big "save or you are screwed" saves so a -2 to Will saves is MUCH more than double of a penalty than -1 to Reflex saves. Hence, I think the +5 is warranted on two "one slot" items.

Worth noting that the Girdle of Stone Giant Strength is -1 DEX - which is more impactful than -1 ref save.

Endgame wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for the feedback all!

That +4 STR -1 Reflex save belt is here:

tokendb.com/token/girdle-of-stone-giant-strength/

The reason I think that the +5 STR -2 Will save is appropriate is because not all saves are created equal. There are a lot less items that increase Wisdom (modifies Will saves) vs Dex and Con (for Reflex and Fort saves), AND Will saves tend to be big "save or you are screwed" saves so a -2 to Will saves is MUCH more than double of a penalty than -1 to Reflex saves. Hence, I think the +5 is warranted on two "one slot" items.

Worth noting that the Girdle of Stone Giant Strength is -1 DEX - which is more impactful than -1 ref save.

Ouch. I missed that one. Thanks.