TOPIC: 2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Part Three

Lenses of the Fae
I love that this reprint in on the menu. I love it so much that I hesitate to even say anything about it other than "print it", and the argument that I make may be the only time I ever make an argument for a name change when a reprint of the name could be fine.

All that said, chance of a name change for Lenses of the Fae to something like The Eyes of Osiris? I love the theme of this set and would love to get the same ability on the Lenses of the Fae on an Egyptian theme.

I would be against a functional reprint.
If we're going to change it, I'd say change what it does.

I know there are precedents, but it feels unnecessarily complex.

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote: Agree with others that Bead of Shared Recovery should be 1,2,4.

I am going to put this back out here as an example of why lowering the bead is a bad idea. This item never really got used.

tokendb.com/token/earcuff-of-the-phalanx/

In order to get an entire party to give up a bead slot there needs to be a good reward... same if you expect folks to buy a set of 10 of these.

Compare the UR bead to this 4 point (which is easily available at less than UR prices):
tokendb.com/token/master-ale-drinkers-bead/

The +3 con for a lot of folks is going to be +2 fort saves and 10 HPs at 5th level. The comparison is only worse if we look at the Stalker beads, TEs, the beads of Whispers, or guided strike.

If this was a charm or an ion stone I could maybe see the argument to reduce it, but as of now bead slots are very hard to come by.

Your comparing apples to oranges with both those examples. Phalanx is AC which has never been worth much in game. And Master Ale is a flat hp gain. Everyone equips the new Bead and your looking at a total of 50 healing every room x 6. So 300 extra healing per run which is a ton. Reduce it to 4 and your still at 240 which is a lot.

Rob F wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote: Agree with others that Bead of Shared Recovery should be 1,2,4.

I am going to put this back out here as an example of why lowering the bead is a bad idea. This item never really got used.

tokendb.com/token/earcuff-of-the-phalanx/

In order to get an entire party to give up a bead slot there needs to be a good reward... same if you expect folks to buy a set of 10 of these.

Compare the UR bead to this 4 point (which is easily available at less than UR prices):
tokendb.com/token/master-ale-drinkers-bead/

The +3 con for a lot of folks is going to be +2 fort saves and 10 HPs at 5th level. The comparison is only worse if we look at the Stalker beads, TEs, the beads of Whispers, or guided strike.

If this was a charm or an ion stone I could maybe see the argument to reduce it, but as of now bead slots are very hard to come by.

Your comparing apples to oranges with both those examples. Phalanx is AC which has never been worth much in game. And Master Ale is a flat hp gain. Everyone equips the new Bead and your looking at a total of 50 healing every room x 6. So 300 extra healing per run which is a ton. Reduce it to 4 and your still at 240 which is a lot.

My point is that it is apples and oranges and in order for this bead to have any value it needs to be the more desirable of the two. Otherwise no one buys it.

If a group wants to try to use the bead in a no healing run good for them. I don't see this as very different from a shirt of linked healing run or any other themed run. Most of the time it won't get used because it is not good enough compared to the other beads (only really useful as a set).

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote: Agree with others that Bead of Shared Recovery should be 1,2,4.

I am going to put this back out here as an example of why lowering the bead is a bad idea. This item never really got used.

tokendb.com/token/earcuff-of-the-phalanx/

In order to get an entire party to give up a bead slot there needs to be a good reward... same if you expect folks to buy a set of 10 of these.

Compare the UR bead to this 4 point (which is easily available at less than UR prices):
tokendb.com/token/master-ale-drinkers-bead/

The +3 con for a lot of folks is going to be +2 fort saves and 10 HPs at 5th level. The comparison is only worse if we look at the Stalker beads, TEs, the beads of Whispers, or guided strike.

If this was a charm or an ion stone I could maybe see the argument to reduce it, but as of now bead slots are very hard to come by.

Your comparing apples to oranges with both those examples. Phalanx is AC which has never been worth much in game. And Master Ale is a flat hp gain. Everyone equips the new Bead and your looking at a total of 50 healing every room x 6. So 300 extra healing per run which is a ton. Reduce it to 4 and your still at 240 which is a lot.

My point is that it is apples and oranges and in order for this bead to have any value it needs to be the more desirable of the two. Otherwise no one buys it.

If a group wants to try to use the bead in a no healing run good for them. I don't see this as very different from a shirt of linked healing run or any other themed run. Most of the time it won't get used because it is not good enough compared to the other beads (only really useful as a set).

I wholeheartedly agree with this, as it is now I am going to buy one, but if its reduced probably not. Bead slot is wayyyy to valuable for this to get reduced. You have to think that not everyone is going to be making MCoA. So slots will be full of TE's and there are just too any other great options even with expanders for me to worry about this being too good. I do not honestly see it getting much play if nerfed at all.

payden wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote: Agree with others that Bead of Shared Recovery should be 1,2,4.

I am going to put this back out here as an example of why lowering the bead is a bad idea. This item never really got used.

tokendb.com/token/earcuff-of-the-phalanx/

In order to get an entire party to give up a bead slot there needs to be a good reward... same if you expect folks to buy a set of 10 of these.

Compare the UR bead to this 4 point (which is easily available at less than UR prices):
tokendb.com/token/master-ale-drinkers-bead/

The +3 con for a lot of folks is going to be +2 fort saves and 10 HPs at 5th level. The comparison is only worse if we look at the Stalker beads, TEs, the beads of Whispers, or guided strike.

If this was a charm or an ion stone I could maybe see the argument to reduce it, but as of now bead slots are very hard to come by.

Your comparing apples to oranges with both those examples. Phalanx is AC which has never been worth much in game. And Master Ale is a flat hp gain. Everyone equips the new Bead and your looking at a total of 50 healing every room x 6. So 300 extra healing per run which is a ton. Reduce it to 4 and your still at 240 which is a lot.

My point is that it is apples and oranges and in order for this bead to have any value it needs to be the more desirable of the two. Otherwise no one buys it.

If a group wants to try to use the bead in a no healing run good for them. I don't see this as very different from a shirt of linked healing run or any other themed run. Most of the time it won't get used because it is not good enough compared to the other beads (only really useful as a set).

I wholeheartedly agree with this, as it is now I am going to buy one, but if its reduced probably not. Bead slot is wayyyy to valuable for this to get reduced. You have to think that not everyone is going to be making MCoA. So slots will be full of TE's and there are just too any other great options even with expanders for me to worry about this being too good. I do not honestly see it getting much play if nerfed at all.

2 years in a row there have been proposals for a bead expander. It's almost certain to happen next year, so I expect 2-4 extra beads will be available to any build before we actually fill the bead slot with TEs. Given this, we have to have it balanced with open slots in mind.

Even 3 HP / room ends up being about double a Masters Ale Drinker's bead, which seems appropriate for a UR.

Greg wrote: I would love to see the Wings of Wrath bring back the Oak Runestone effect and knock flyers out of the air. That feels like a pretty wrathful strike to me, and is an effect that benefits the party.

While this sounds good it would be extremely OP. It entirely negates the point of having ranged/flying encounters to force you to do something uncommon and let other classes shine. The runestone was one-time use which was fine but if it were added to a token it effectively kills flying monster forever. As much as I hate spell resistance/reflect/immunity I don't want a way to reliably bypass it forever otherwise the game is just less interesting. I was pretty upset when I nuked myself on a mob with spell reflect though.

dokkaebi wrote: 2023//2024 PYPs
No Head PYP available
No Waist PYP available

One Neck PYP available (casters only)
One Leg PYP available (healers only)

Earcuff of Sage Sprite could be a good one to save for next year to ensure that there's at least one UR available at Waist or Head.

I think Armor of the Ancients is the weakest UR out of the set. It's probably less desirable than lucky light mail, and that is well below PYP prices.

What about moving Armor of the Ancients to head slot as Nemes of the Ancients (power to be determined) so we have a head item in the set?

For those unfamiliar, this is a Nemes:

Rob F wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote: Agree with others that Bead of Shared Recovery should be 1,2,4.

I am going to put this back out here as an example of why lowering the bead is a bad idea. This item never really got used.

tokendb.com/token/earcuff-of-the-phalanx/

In order to get an entire party to give up a bead slot there needs to be a good reward... same if you expect folks to buy a set of 10 of these.

Compare the UR bead to this 4 point (which is easily available at less than UR prices):
tokendb.com/token/master-ale-drinkers-bead/

The +3 con for a lot of folks is going to be +2 fort saves and 10 HPs at 5th level. The comparison is only worse if we look at the Stalker beads, TEs, the beads of Whispers, or guided strike.

If this was a charm or an ion stone I could maybe see the argument to reduce it, but as of now bead slots are very hard to come by.

Your comparing apples to oranges with both those examples. Phalanx is AC which has never been worth much in game. And Master Ale is a flat hp gain. Everyone equips the new Bead and your looking at a total of 50 healing every room x 6. So 300 extra healing per run which is a ton. Reduce it to 4 and your still at 240 which is a lot.

That scenario is worst case and I'm guessing rarely happens. How often does the entire group have at least five damage each going into every room starting in room 2. It's not like having 300 healing that you can apply when you want (likely the last couple of rooms).

Mike Steele wrote:

Rob F wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Rob F wrote: Agree with others that Bead of Shared Recovery should be 1,2,4.

I am going to put this back out here as an example of why lowering the bead is a bad idea. This item never really got used.

tokendb.com/token/earcuff-of-the-phalanx/

In order to get an entire party to give up a bead slot there needs to be a good reward... same if you expect folks to buy a set of 10 of these.

Compare the UR bead to this 4 point (which is easily available at less than UR prices):
tokendb.com/token/master-ale-drinkers-bead/

The +3 con for a lot of folks is going to be +2 fort saves and 10 HPs at 5th level. The comparison is only worse if we look at the Stalker beads, TEs, the beads of Whispers, or guided strike.

If this was a charm or an ion stone I could maybe see the argument to reduce it, but as of now bead slots are very hard to come by.

Your comparing apples to oranges with both those examples. Phalanx is AC which has never been worth much in game. And Master Ale is a flat hp gain. Everyone equips the new Bead and your looking at a total of 50 healing every room x 6. So 300 extra healing per run which is a ton. Reduce it to 4 and your still at 240 which is a lot.

That scenario is worst case and I'm guessing rarely happens. How often does the entire group have at least five damage each going into every room starting in room 2. It's not like having 300 healing that you can apply when you want (likely the last couple of rooms).

It's rather common for my group to take max puzzle damage room 1, and then take push damage after that.

If you compare it to FOP: Phoenix, for the Bead you max out at 30 HP healing but have to be damaged at least five points in every room starting in #2. On average the Bead probably heals far less than 30 points per Dungeon.
Phoenix heals 20 points and you can choose who and when, so it will almost always get the full 20 points of healing in. The two seem pretty comparable to me. And, while the Phoenix was very powerful when first printed, it might be a bit underpowered now. It does not seem to be one of the URs that are in demand in this set.

+2 Savage Sword
+1 For lowering the Damage Wheel
+1 For removing Rangers

Wings of Wrath
+5 Damage, remove the 2 handed requirement, and change "monster" to "monsters."
OR
What if the irony of the "Wings of Wrath" is that it does NOT allows the character to fly? Instead it turns a melee weapon into a ranged weapon ala the beam that shoots out of Link's sword when he has full hearts.