TOPIC: 2024 Rare Token Images < Part Three

A few tweaks here...and we still have the new Druid poly item -- the Trinket. I know it hard not to do, but let's not comment on HOW the power works for the Trinket. We won't screw over the Ranger or Druid Summoner. The power mechanics will be determined during the class re-design. Please just concentrate on the token images themselves. Thanks for the feedback!

truedungeon.com/files/CS24_Round04_Rare.jpg

Thanks for the info on design timelines relative to polymorph/trinket changes - I’m looking forward to what you all cook up.

+1 Mystic Staff is not located in the right spot in the image. Should appear at the beginning with the other +1 weapons.

(Repeating my comment from the last thread, since I posted just as they were getting locked:)

Damage on the Trinket of Trollform is too high, especially the restriction is on each unique token (as with weapons or existing Polymorph Potions) rather than each uniquely named token. Actually, come to think of it, even if the restriction is on uniquely named tokens, we're just pushing that problem until sufficient uniquely named trinkets come out.

Compare against existing reusable polymoprh items:

2009 UR Coronet of the Arch-Druid : average damage 9.5
Trollform + 2021 standard pack rare Crown of Focus : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 UR Shaman's Belt : average damage 9
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Sash of Sinew : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 Relic Shaman’s Greater Necklace : average damage 9.5
2019 Legendary Iktomi's Shaper Necklace : average damage 11
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Amulet of the Wild : average damage 9.33 + 4 (total: 13.33)

Eight standard pack rares (one trinket for each room of a dungeon) occupying the same slots should not be outdamaging a Class Legendary.

On a related note, will the Coronet and Belt be reworked? Even just removing both the slot and spell cost will help them stand better against future polymorph trinkets.

(Relic and Legendary necks too, may need to be reworked... but as always, let's wait for the class redesigns before dealing with those.)

Have not been following rare discussion - is arrow of Horus meant to be that good compared to every other arrow? Is it a+3 weapon and magical?

Jeff Martin wrote: A few tweaks here...and we still have the new Druid poly item -- the Trinket. I know it hard not to do, but let's not comment on HOW the power works for the Trinket. We won't screw over the Ranger or Druid Summoner. The power mechanics will be determined during the class re-design. Please just concentrate on the token images themselves. Thanks for the feedback!

truedungeon.com/files/CS24_Round04_Rare.jpg

Jeff, can do - focus on the images!

It might be nice to include Clerics on a non-staff melee weapon. Maybe change the +1 Sword of Seth to a Mace?

Arrow of Horus: This seems like a power increase from previous arrows. Are they considered underpowered now? Maybe make it +2 and increased crit or just +3?

Earcuff of Aset - this seems a bit underpowered for an Earcuff slot. Maybe double it to healing 2 points?

Should Handy Holy Belt just say 1/room instead of 1/combat? Allowing it in non-combat rooms doesn't seem to be a problem since there is plenty of time to drink potions anyway then.

Moon Dagger: I like the nod to Moon Knight.

Seth's Ring of Shadows: This seems underpowered for non-Rogues, maybe boost to +2 damage? Ring of Roaring deals +2 sonic ranged damage, that seems like a good comparison.

Shiver Quiver: I like the rhymey name.

Trinket of Trollform: I'd like to see the damage brought down a bit and regeneration added back in, or maybe damage resistance. It would be nice for these to have more fun things in addition to damage wheels.

Other than that, looks great!!

Ioun Stone Opal Prism is too red to be an opal.

Since there is both a rare and UR focus Ioun Stone this year, maybe choose a different stone, so they match and make them different shapes?

Jasper Prism added +1 to melee damage and Jasper Ellipsoid added +2 to melee damage.

No luck swapping +1 heavy axe to a +1 greater scimitar reprint? Feels more on theme.

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: (Repeating my comment from the last thread, since I posted just as they were getting locked:)

Damage on the Trinket of Trollform is too high, especially the restriction is on each unique token (as with weapons or existing Polymorph Potions) rather than each uniquely named token. Actually, come to think of it, even if the restriction is on uniquely named tokens, we're just pushing that problem until sufficient uniquely named trinkets come out.

Compare against existing reusable polymoprh items:

2009 UR Coronet of the Arch-Druid : average damage 9.5
Trollform + 2021 standard pack rare Crown of Focus : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 UR Shaman's Belt : average damage 9
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Sash of Sinew : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 Relic Shaman’s Greater Necklace : average damage 9.5
2019 Legendary Iktomi's Shaper Necklace : average damage 11
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Amulet of the Wild : average damage 9.33 + 4 (total: 13.33)

Eight standard pack rares (one trinket for each room of a dungeon) occupying the same slots should not be outdamaging a Class Legendary.

On a related note, will the Coronet and Belt be reworked? Even just removing both the slot and spell cost will help them stand better against future polymorph trinkets.

(Relic and Legendary necks too, may need to be reworked... but as always, let's wait for the class redesigns before dealing with those.)

As someone that has the Druid legendary I disagree. I want to be able to use something other than just the elemental forms and not give up too much damage. I have no problem if the damage on a once per game shape is similar to my use all the time legends damage slider.

OrionW wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: (Repeating my comment from the last thread, since I posted just as they were getting locked:)

Damage on the Trinket of Trollform is too high, especially the restriction is on each unique token (as with weapons or existing Polymorph Potions) rather than each uniquely named token. Actually, come to think of it, even if the restriction is on uniquely named tokens, we're just pushing that problem until sufficient uniquely named trinkets come out.

Compare against existing reusable polymoprh items:

2009 UR Coronet of the Arch-Druid : average damage 9.5
Trollform + 2021 standard pack rare Crown of Focus : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 UR Shaman's Belt : average damage 9
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Sash of Sinew : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 Relic Shaman’s Greater Necklace : average damage 9.5
2019 Legendary Iktomi's Shaper Necklace : average damage 11
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Amulet of the Wild : average damage 9.33 + 4 (total: 13.33)

Eight standard pack rares (one trinket for each room of a dungeon) occupying the same slots should not be outdamaging a Class Legendary.

On a related note, will the Coronet and Belt be reworked? Even just removing both the slot and spell cost will help them stand better against future polymorph trinkets.

(Relic and Legendary necks too, may need to be reworked... but as always, let's wait for the class redesigns before dealing with those.)

As someone that has the Druid legendary I disagree. I want to be able to use something other than just the elemental forms and not give up too much damage. I have no problem if the damage on a once per game shape is similar to my use all the time legends damage slider.

It's not a once per game shape though, it's a polymorph for an entire room. If we can use multiple of the same trinket in a game then it's basically unlimited polymorph at that damage level. Even if it isn't, once there are multiple trinkets it's basically unlimited polymorph for the whole Dungeon at that damage level. Two rare tokens using the same neck slot as Iktomi's will do more damage than Iktomi's does.

I'm not sure if that means the rare is overpowered, as much as it does that Iktomi's is severely underpowered. I do hope somehow Iktomi's can be boosted so that the Druid Class Legendary is better than two 2024 Rare tokens.

Mike Steele wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: (Repeating my comment from the last thread, since I posted just as they were getting locked:)

Damage on the Trinket of Trollform is too high, especially the restriction is on each unique token (as with weapons or existing Polymorph Potions) rather than each uniquely named token. Actually, come to think of it, even if the restriction is on uniquely named tokens, we're just pushing that problem until sufficient uniquely named trinkets come out.

Compare against existing reusable polymoprh items:

2009 UR Coronet of the Arch-Druid : average damage 9.5
Trollform + 2021 standard pack rare Crown of Focus : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 UR Shaman's Belt : average damage 9
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Sash of Sinew : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 Relic Shaman’s Greater Necklace : average damage 9.5
2019 Legendary Iktomi's Shaper Necklace : average damage 11
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Amulet of the Wild : average damage 9.33 + 4 (total: 13.33)

Eight standard pack rares (one trinket for each room of a dungeon) occupying the same slots should not be outdamaging a Class Legendary.

On a related note, will the Coronet and Belt be reworked? Even just removing both the slot and spell cost will help them stand better against future polymorph trinkets.

(Relic and Legendary necks too, may need to be reworked... but as always, let's wait for the class redesigns before dealing with those.)

As someone that has the Druid legendary I disagree. I want to be able to use something other than just the elemental forms and not give up too much damage. I have no problem if the damage on a once per game shape is similar to my use all the time legends damage slider.

It's not a once per game shape though, it's a polymorph for an entire room. If we can use multiple of the same trinket in a game then it's basically unlimited polymorph at that damage level. Even if it isn't, once there are multiple trinkets it's basically unlimited polymorph for the whole Dungeon at that damage level. Two rare tokens using the same neck slot as Iktomi's will do more damage than Iktomi's does.

I'm not sure if that means the rare is overpowered, as much as it does that Iktomi's is severely underpowered. I do hope somehow Iktomi's can be boosted so that the Druid Class Legendary is better than two 2024 Rare tokens.

Rare neck slots + current polymorph potions do more damage than Iktomi’s as is though (not by much though, as I recall it is less than a point per round). What Iktomi’s offers is flexibility and spell casting.

I could get behind a cool ability instead of damage if that was the direction the token went.

It would be a shame though if the first trinket is unremarkable.

OrionW wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: (Repeating my comment from the last thread, since I posted just as they were getting locked:)

Damage on the Trinket of Trollform is too high, especially the restriction is on each unique token (as with weapons or existing Polymorph Potions) rather than each uniquely named token. Actually, come to think of it, even if the restriction is on uniquely named tokens, we're just pushing that problem until sufficient uniquely named trinkets come out.

Compare against existing reusable polymoprh items:

2009 UR Coronet of the Arch-Druid : average damage 9.5
Trollform + 2021 standard pack rare Crown of Focus : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 UR Shaman's Belt : average damage 9
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Sash of Sinew : average damage 9.33 + 1 (total: 10.33)

2019 Relic Shaman’s Greater Necklace : average damage 9.5
2019 Legendary Iktomi's Shaper Necklace : average damage 11
Trollform + 2023 standard pack rare Amulet of the Wild : average damage 9.33 + 4 (total: 13.33)

Eight standard pack rares (one trinket for each room of a dungeon) occupying the same slots should not be outdamaging a Class Legendary.

On a related note, will the Coronet and Belt be reworked? Even just removing both the slot and spell cost will help them stand better against future polymorph trinkets.

(Relic and Legendary necks too, may need to be reworked... but as always, let's wait for the class redesigns before dealing with those.)

As someone that has the Druid legendary I disagree. I want to be able to use something other than just the elemental forms and not give up too much damage. I have no problem if the damage on a once per game shape is similar to my use all the time legends damage slider.

It's not a once per game shape though, it's a polymorph for an entire room. If we can use multiple of the same trinket in a game then it's basically unlimited polymorph at that damage level. Even if it isn't, once there are multiple trinkets it's basically unlimited polymorph for the whole Dungeon at that damage level. Two rare tokens using the same neck slot as Iktomi's will do more damage than Iktomi's does.

I'm not sure if that means the rare is overpowered, as much as it does that Iktomi's is severely underpowered. I do hope somehow Iktomi's can be boosted so that the Druid Class Legendary is better than two 2024 Rare tokens.

Rare neck slots + current polymorph potions do more damage than Iktomi’s as is though (not by much though, as I recall it is less than a point per round). What Iktomi’s offers is flexibility and spell casting.

I could get behind a cool ability instead of damage if that was the direction the token went.

It would be a shame though if the first trinket is unremarkable.

I don't disagree. I'd much rather see Iktomi's boosted than Trinkets be weak. Hopefully that happens, Jeff had said that at some point the Class Legendaries would be relooked at. It would be easy to do - in the TokenDB entry it could say Iktomi's wasn't limited to one form per room, and it could give much stronger benefits to the Elemental forms (bonus damage, abilities such as flying, etc). It never seemed right that the Legendary elemental benefits were exactly the same as the Relic.