TOPIC: What should a Relic and Legendary cost in 2024?

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

The extras in each 8k are bringing down the prices too. Every PYP can easily drop $20 when the auction also has:

Grunnel minor favor
Charm of biting
Patron code
Mark of enlightenment
And rings of the 4th circle that are worth way more than 7th teeth

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

The extras in each 8k are bringing down the prices too. Every PYP can easily drop $20 when the auction also has:

Grunnel minor favor
Charm of biting
Patron code
Mark of enlightenment
And rings of the 4th circle that are worth way more than 7th teeth

That's a good point for the last few years with auctions. Pre-auctions, you could only buy PYPs from people making $8K buys that had extra PYPs for sale, and there wasn't as direct of a link to the total value of the $8K components. I like our current auction environment!

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

The extras in each 8k are bringing down the prices too. Every PYP can easily drop $20 when the auction also has:

Grunnel minor favor
Charm of biting
Patron code
Mark of enlightenment
And rings of the 4th circle that are worth way more than 7th teeth

Reference your longer post on this subject earlier as well. I agree, but I doubt as many auctions would fund without the add ons or they would fund much, much slower. This would drive the prices higher for sure and likely many won't fund at all. It's a tricky balance. The reason people add on other tokens from there collection is they are motivate to have the auction fund and in a certain timeframe, as opposed to not funding.

Kirk Bauer wrote: Trade good prices can vary pretty wildly and it isn't necessarily predictable. So depending on the month that you look at it, you might end up at different numbers. That also seems problematic for a Legendary recipe that never expires.

My suggestion would be to ignore the market prices and instead focus on "percentage of $8k order" and/or "number of treasure draws". In other words, perhaps a newbie-focused relic should be craftable with, on average:

Trade goods from a $1k order
AND
50 treasure pulls

For a more powerful Relic that is going to be more valuable to veterans, perhaps:

Trade goods from a $1k order
AND
500 treasure pulls

These are just some examples, not meant to be the specific numbers. But what I mean by this is -- how much Darkwood Plane should the recipe take? Well take the total DP from a $1k order (on average) and add the total DP from 50 treasure pulls (on average) and that's your number.

I really like what Kirk has to say here. I think True Adventures shouldn't worry about the secondary market prices and focus on what it takes based on sales levels (token + runs/treasure pulls).

David Harris wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

The extras in each 8k are bringing down the prices too. Every PYP can easily drop $20 when the auction also has:

Grunnel minor favor
Charm of biting
Patron code
Mark of enlightenment
And rings of the 4th circle that are worth way more than 7th teeth

Reference your longer post on this subject earlier as well. I agree, but I doubt as many auctions would fund without the add ons or they would fund much, much slower. This would drive the prices higher for sure and likely many won't fund at all. It's a tricky balance. The reason people add on other tokens from their collection is they are motivate to have the auction fund and in a certain timeframe, as opposed to not funding.

Fewer / longer funding auctions would help push the price for trade goods and PYPs back to where it was though. That may be a good thing, based on your point of view

David Harris wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

The extras in each 8k are bringing down the prices too. Every PYP can easily drop $20 when the auction also has:

Grunnel minor favor
Charm of biting
Patron code
Mark of enlightenment
And rings of the 4th circle that are worth way more than 7th teeth

Reference your longer post on this subject earlier as well. I agree, but I doubt as many auctions would fund without the add ons or they would fund much, much slower. This would drive the prices higher for sure and likely many won't fund at all. It's a tricky balance. The reason people add on other tokens from there collection is they are motivate to have the auction fund and in a certain timeframe, as opposed to not funding.

I think quite often (not always) people add items to the auction either because they're funding at the $8,000 level instead of the standard $7,500 or so, or they are making up for items they aren't including in the auction (like the Patron Pin/code).

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

I'm guessing there's also a significantly higher supply of random URs than in years past. 2022 had 50 closed auctions by my count, plus whatever private buys occurred at the 1k, 2k, and 8k levels. That's between 450 and 500 random URs added to the TD economy just from the auctions.

Marc D wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

I'm guessing there's also a significantly higher supply of random URs than in years past. 2022 had 50 closed auctions by my count, plus whatever private buys occurred at the 1k, 2k, and 8k levels. That's between 450 and 500 random URs added to the TD economy just from the auctions.

108 or so patrons in 2022 and at least 99 in 2023 so far. Well over 4K URs each year plus the additional treasure from VTDs.

Relic recipes have been in the $500 range and Legendary recipes have usually been in the $1000 range not including the relic cost. It seems that relics are often crafted and UR's collected for the legendary recipes during the year the tokens are released knowing that the Legendary can be crafted later. Relics with a recipe cost of 500-600 often sell later for 300-400. Legendary tokens that cost 1300-1600 to craft often sell later for 850-1100. (CoA is an exception. It holds its value currently but a lot more are now being crafted which is increasing the supply.)

The following analysis is what I have observed and sheds some light on the supply of trade goods and the secondary market prices.

VTD has changed the landscape for trade goods. Increased amounts of treasure being generated has increased the supply of Rare, Uncommon and monster bit tokens in circulation. This in turn has increased the supply of Aragonite, Elven Bismuth, Oil of Enchantment and Golden Fleece available. The increased supply has driven the secondary market prices down (AG 20-25 down to 8-12, EB 11-14 down to 6-8, OE 16-18 down to 6-8, GF 70-85 down to 30-40). The amounts of these goods needed in recipes has not changed significantly.

Traditionally the more plentiful trade goods (Darkwood Plank, Mystic Silk, Dwarven Steel, Minotaur Hide, Philosopher's Stone, Alchemist Ink and Alchemist Parchment) have greater quantities required in recipes. Enchanter's Munition has remained static. DP, MS, and PS are generated in larger quantities in an 8K auction and thus are usually cheaper. AI and AP are subject to demand depending on how many potions or scrolls are being used and not transmuted. (It is also worthy to note that DP, MS, PS, AI, AP, and EM are generated in C, U, and R quantities and generate the goods via points.

DS (gone from 3 to 5-7) and MH (gone from 3 to 5-8( have recipe quantities similar to the past amounts. The only source for these is common tokens and both are in units. They have increased in price due to the lower supply. Common tokens are not generated in treasure.

IMO Now add to the above the following:
2018--One Legendary Recipe usable by all classes--Thor's, one recipe for use by three classes--Pern's, and 9-10 popular UR's
2019--Three Legendary Recipes for 3 specific classes--Iktomi's, Raphiel's, Widseth's, and 11-12 popular UR's
2020--Four Legendary Recipes for 4 specific classes--Ava's, Benrow's, Bog's, Ralson's, and 17-18 popular UR's
2021--Three Legendary Recipes for 3 specific classes--Ashenne's, Druegar's, Viv's, and 13-14 popular UR's
2022--Three Legendary Recipes for all classes--Luna's, Muk's, ToH (from Treasure Box) and 15-16 popular UR's
2023--Three Legendary Recipes for all classes--Boaz's, Vim's, and CoA, and 13-14 popular UR's (It is noteworthy that IMO Boots is not worth crafting vs. the cost/benefit and Boaz's, Stalker Bead of Focus, Stalker Bead of Skill and TE Bead of Bounty (UR) compete for Bead slots) .

Just some other thoughts on crafting recipes, supply and demand. Remember we spend discretionary dollars for enjoyment and the chase.

edwin wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think one of the reasons PYPs have dropped in value in recent years is that the supply of them on the secondary market is significantly greater. There are far more auctions now than there were just a few years ago. For me at least, in 2020 it was pretty tough finding any PYPs for sale.

I'm guessing there's also a significantly higher supply of random URs than in years past. 2022 had 50 closed auctions by my count, plus whatever private buys occurred at the 1k, 2k, and 8k levels. That's between 450 and 500 random URs added to the TD economy just from the auctions.

108 or so patrons in 2022 and at least 99 in 2023 so far. Well over 4K URs each year plus the additional treasure from VTDs.

That's a much easier way to count the 8ks! So, yeah, almost 1,000 random URs entering the market just from the patrons, not to mention other orders, treasure, 10-packs, etc. That will push the price way down on less desirable UR tokens that people mostly want for transmutes or collections.

So many posts not enough time to read them all. I will say though that if I had the option I would rather the Relic be substantially cheaper to craft and weaker power level relatively to the legendary. Then have a bigger power jump from Relic to Legendary.

Example:
UR gives +2
Relic gives +3
Legendary gives +6 or 7

Top load the trade goods needed on the legendary since they are eternal recipes. This gives the ability for new players to get relics easier and slowly build to the legendary over time.

Kusig wrote: So many posts not enough time to read them all. I will say though that if I had the option I would rather the Relic be substantially cheaper to craft and weaker power level relatively to the legendary. Then have a bigger power jump from Relic to Legendary.

Example:
UR gives +2
Relic gives +3
Legendary gives +6 or 7

Top load the trade goods needed on the legendary since they are eternal recipes. This gives the ability for new players to get relics easier and slowly build to the legendary over time.

2 / 3 / 5 should be sufficiently powerful to jump between rarity