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TOPIC: Mage Staff discussion/clarification

Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #13

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Dougout wrote: Personally, I wouldn't want any wand to be UR, unless it's not consumed.


I hope that's what he was suggesting.


Yes, not consumable. I think there's a lot of potential design space for powering up Wands above the Rare level.
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Last edit: by Rob F.

Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #14

Ultimately what I would like to see from the Mage Staves is


STR+INT/WIS to hit in melee, gives standard melee damage

DEX+INT/WIS to hit at range, uses spell damage modifier for damage at range

Pop the UR Staff up to +2 like all other UR weapons but drop the damage wheel to 1/2/1/2 so it stays weaker than a standard cast spell.

Open the +2 Mage Staff of Power to Wizard/Bard/Cleric/Druid and limit the 1/room spell as a scroll to non healing spells.


That would fulfill the requests for a reprint of the +2 Staff of Power and it would provide all spellcasting classes with a backup spell focused weapon to use when out of damaging spells.

It would fulfill the limitation Wizards have at all design levels if all Mage Staves used that same setup. Giving them a core backup attack when spells are all exhausted.

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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #15

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Ultimately what I would like to see from the Mage Staves is

STR+INT/WIS to hit in melee, gives standard melee damage

DEX+INT/WIS to hit at range, uses spell damage modifier for damage at range

Pop the UR Staff up to +2 like all other UR weapons but drop the damage wheel to 1/2/1/2 so it stays weaker than a standard cast spell.

Open the +2 Mage Staff of Power to Wizard/Bard/Cleric/Druid and limit the 1/room spell as a scroll to non healing spells.


That would fulfill the requests for a reprint of the +2 Staff of Power and it would provide all spellcasting classes with a backup spell focused weapon to use when out of damaging spells.

It would fulfill the limitation Wizards have at all design levels if all Mage Staves used that same setup. Giving them a core backup attack when spells are all exhausted.


Sounds great to me!

Though I wouldn't even need all the pieces of what you said in order to be happy with it... IMO the ranged behavior is most important, the melee much less so, and my Cleric/Druid builds would be perfectly happy to just use the lesser Mystic Staff under these general rules (leaving the UR as a Wizards exclusive, like the original +2 SoP).
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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #16

  • bpsymington
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I think the staves are interesting and a challenging design - a creative new idea.

I don't want to see them replacing spells as the focus for wizards. I'm not even convinced they are very necessary. I have a lot of TD experience, but I acknowledge it is fairly limited - I don't do True Grind, and I almost always run with very powerful groups so that combat rarely lasts more than two or three rounds, even on epic. I have never run out of spells, but even if a wizard does, there are tons of scrolls and wands available for her/him.
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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #17

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The staves are considered ranged weapons - is the INT to-ht bonus in ADDITION to the DEX ranged to-hit bonus, or INSTEAD OF the DEX bonues?
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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #18

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bpsymington wrote: The staves are considered ranged weapons - is the INT to-ht bonus in ADDITION to the DEX ranged to-hit bonus, or INSTEAD OF the DEX bonues?

Currently instead of, from Jeff's latest post on the topic, hence the discussion here.

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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #19

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NightGod wrote:

bpsymington wrote: The staves are considered ranged weapons - is the INT to-ht bonus in ADDITION to the DEX ranged to-hit bonus, or INSTEAD OF the DEX bonues?

Currently instead of, from Jeff's latest post on the topic, hence the discussion here.


Ah, I have missed most of that discussion. I don't feel very strongly about them, doubt I would equip one other than the staff of power for when I am an elf, but even then I think I would prefer a focus staff.
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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #20

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Sniper specs and the new belt would give +5 to hit.
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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #21

bpsymington wrote: Sniper specs and the new belt would give +5 to hit.


Yes, but they also give that bonus to normal ranged weapons. The problem with the new mage staff is that it loses all the DEX bonus compared to normal missile weapons.
Think of it this way: if you equip a ranged weapon that gave you the option of using either DEX or INT as your to-hit bonus, which would you choose? The best case scenario for INT is you are human wizard, base +3 to-hit with INT over DEX...but after equipping the relic or legendary robes, the difference is only +1 to-hit in favor of INT (with elf wizard, DEX is already better). If you equip ANY DEX item regardless of your missile to-hit (ie for AC or reflex), DEX is already just as good.
But now you have to make your build decision. Do you want to equip INT items that do nothing but increase to-hit, or do you want DEX items that also give AC and reflex bonuses?

Now, if INT has another use (like +spell damage), that would at least make for a choice.
If this item used your spell damage stat for it's damage bonus, that would be huge.
If this item used both DEX and INT, it would be good because it could actually hit tougher monsters.
If this item got a +2 bonus (without any other changes)...nope, still not good enough to use as a weapon. This doesn't address the inherent disadvantage of INT.

The problem to me is that as it stands, this could just be a stick of power that lets you cast a 1st level spell 1/room and not even have a damage wheel, and it would be just as good...maybe 'better', in the sense that it doesn't have the feel-bad of being a crappy weapon.


Now, all that said, I realize that I will actually get whatever the best rare or lower mystic staff is for my druid, because DEX is my druids dump stat. I don't expect it to be used as I am polymorph druid that uses spells when melee isn't an option, but a ranged only monster with magic resistance is possible.
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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #22

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Would love to see the Staffs be transmutable over the next
few years so you could have a Staff of the Elements
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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #23

Ramsildor wrote: Would love to see the Staffs be transmutable over the next
few years so you could have a Staff of the Elements


I would support something like this for each class. I would have preferred it over the neck legendaries we ended up with.

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Mage Staff discussion/clarification 2 years 11 months ago #24

kurtreznor wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Sniper specs and the new belt would give +5 to hit.


Yes, but they also give that bonus to normal ranged weapons. The problem with the new mage staff is that it loses all the DEX bonus compared to normal missile weapons.
Think of it this way: if you equip a ranged weapon that gave you the option of using either DEX or INT as your to-hit bonus, which would you choose? The best case scenario for INT is you are human wizard, base +3 to-hit with INT over DEX...but after equipping the relic or legendary robes, the difference is only +1 to-hit in favor of INT (with elf wizard, DEX is already better). If you equip ANY DEX item regardless of your missile to-hit (ie for AC or reflex), DEX is already just as good.
But now you have to make your build decision. Do you want to equip INT items that do nothing but increase to-hit, or do you want DEX items that also give AC and reflex bonuses?

Now, if INT has another use (like +spell damage), that would at least make for a choice.
If this item used your spell damage stat for it's damage bonus, that would be huge.
If this item used both DEX and INT, it would be good because it could actually hit tougher monsters.
If this item got a +2 bonus (without any other changes)...nope, still not good enough to use as a weapon. This doesn't address the inherent disadvantage of INT.

The problem to me is that as it stands, this could just be a stick of power that lets you cast a 1st level spell 1/room and not even have a damage wheel, and it would be just as good...maybe 'better', in the sense that it doesn't have the feel-bad of being a crappy weapon.


Now, all that said, I realize that I will actually get whatever the best rare or lower mystic staff is for my druid, because DEX is my druids dump stat. I don't expect it to be used as I am polymorph druid that uses spells when melee isn't an option, but a ranged only monster with magic resistance is possible.


The idea was a great idea to try, and at UC and C it's a solid try. If they're bad, they'll get mulched and we'll try something else and collectors will cry out in agony as the trial tokens are impossible to find because they all got mulched.

I do like the idea of a weapon that utilizes dex to hit and int to damage as was tossed around at some point, the "focus" to damage seems like a potential option though that removes int bonuses which I liked the fact that intelligence was getting a bonus.
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