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TOPIC: 2022 Uncommon Final Kind of

2022 Uncommon Final Kind of 2 years 11 months ago #25

Endgame wrote: Past precedent is that attributes in ioun stones only come from Vol tokens +2 for full time and +1 for half time. To make the attribute accessible all the way down to a in pack uncommon seems like a big step, even with a penalty. Making it a bonus to a single save instead (ex, +1 ref at uncommon, +2 or +3 ref at rare) seems much more in step from what we have seen in pack based Iouns.


So, honest question: what happened to the guy who jumped into the 2019 threads to help make sure new and mid-level players still had fun things to play with? I know you and your crew have gone all in now that VTD is a thing. Why pull the ladder up after you?

I do appreciate the precedent. Let's also look at things like Wicked Charm and Charm of the Bobcat. +1 stat, -1 all saves. But that deficit is a lot easier to make up when spread out. Bobcat even negates part of the penalty for you!

-3 in a single stat is just punishing.

I'll note that the +Con/-Dex charm is passing without comment. And that's practically no penalty unless you have another Dex penalty or an odd stat booster.

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2022 Uncommon Final Kind of 2 years 11 months ago #26

  • bpsymington
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So the staves are considered ranged weapons - is the INT to-ht bonus in ADDITION to the DEX ranged to-hit bonus, or INSTEAD OF the DEX bonues?
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2022 Uncommon Final Kind of 2 years 11 months ago #27

Endgame wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Marc D wrote: The penalty in Ioun Stone Jade Sphere now seems too punishing. I think -2 to will saves was enough. With the negatives on both stones at -2, you could offset with Iron Will items to come out even. That locks a slot for head or ring that dex users may not have otherwise locked.

As is, you’re looking at 2-3 slots to offset that penalty. Will is potentially the most damaging save due to the inability to act. -2 to Will seemed appropriate.

On the flip side, Earcuff of retort covers the most punishing will save effects in one ear slot.

-3 seems fine for a +Dex IS


Rare save rings are +4.

So +1 DEX in an Ioun is so good it costs you 3/4 of a rare ring?

Too much in my opinion.

Compare against ruined bliss Bull armor (-2 all saves), fae moonlight or fae starlight armor?


Shirt of Brawn is +1 STR and no appreciable downside unless you equip a second -1 Dex item. Artificer/Dark Gnome gloves swap CON/DEX 1:1. The Fae armors are bad tokens that fit a theme.

Ruined Bliss Bull was probably too punishing as well, but at least provides AC and melee hit/damage for your trouble. Plus -2 to all is a bit easier to overcome than -3 to the one save governed by a stat (WIS) that only has one in-print token that affects it.

Is it the IS slot that's making this so powerful that it needs a massive penalty in your mind? Is 3/4 of a rare ring really worth +.5 ranged To Hit and +.5 Reflex? Wouldn't it be better to have this be more of a puzzle: I can equip this, then seek out that +2 Will save earcuff from 2020 and come out even, and it's only a couple bucks... or get this fancy blue shirt and come out a bit ahead!

Past precedent is that attributes in ioun stones only come from Vol tokens +2 for full time and +1 for half time. To make the attribute accessible all the way down to a in pack uncommon seems like a big step, even with a penalty. Making it a bonus to a single save instead (ex, +1 ref at uncommon, +2 or +3 ref at rare) seems much more in step from what we have seen in pack based Iouns.


I'll just say past precedent is not a very useful concept in TD, especially when considering tokens that will be 7-9 years old when this set is printed.

Consider the following past precedents for shirts:

There are no shirts (2005-6)
There is only one shirt, and it's a transmute (2007-10)
There are a few shirts, but shirts are mostly a Druid thing (2011)
OK, shirts are for everyone, but there's only ever been 1 UR shirt (2012-13)
OK, there are multiple UR shirts, but shirts are mostly defensive (2014-15)
OK, shirts are for everyone and defense, and also melee (2016-2017)
OK, shirts are for everyone and cover defense, melee, spell, etc. 2018+

I challenge you to find a slot that hasn't seen substantial power creep since 2013, when the first Volunteer Ioun Stone was printed. I think melee offhand would be the only one I can think of.

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