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TOPIC: Suggestion: GP on more items

Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #13

smakdown wrote: this year we had 1300gp spread out.

50gp in 1 common
250gp in 2 uncommon
1000gp in 2 rare

instead of that combo, perhaps something like:

2 x 25gp for common
2 x 75gp and 100gp for uncommon
2 x 200gp and 2 x 300gp for rare

the extra gp tokens would take the place of silk/plank/stone tokens.

perhaps some version of this would work.


I like this idea. Keeps the same amount of GP in circulation but removes some of the Trade Goods that seem to be in excess.
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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #14

  • NightGod
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Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #15

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.


Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #16

Rob F wrote: Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.


My guess would be the price to build it if one were buying all ingredients on the secondary market.
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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #17

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Rob F wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.


Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.

I based it on price to build it if you bought the items through auctions on the forums. A Mage relic in 2021 comes out to about $525 and a Bard relic in 2019 comes out to about $415,

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #18

Price of GP in the auctions has gone down this year. There is also the same number of GP tokens in C, UC and R slots for the year token set. There was a slight shift in the value.

I would like to see the rare GP tokens be capped at 500 GP to make it easier for transmutes. Currently one is at 600 and the other at 450. Make the 600 a 500 and flow the 100GP down to the uncommon or common token. I don't think increasing the number of GP tokens is needed since it would not help out first time players getting a token they in almost any run would have no use for.

Having a token count for two different things also complicates things.

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #19

Rob F wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.


Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.

For one aspect, look at the raw number of trade goods it takes to build a relic (total count works). Observe how is has grown annually since 2018.

Price out buying the trade goods from TD tavern for blessed redoubt helm vs necklace of the sneak vs sacred necklace. Price it out again for auction average TG price.

This year, auction average price has dropped from 2019, however we now regularly see “augmented” auctions that add extra stuff to the auction without changing the funding goal. If you look at the TG prices for unaugumented auctions only, you’ll find that TG prices have not dropped at the same rate that transmute costs have gone up. I believe we are getting to the point where a 1k order will not guarantee enough TG to build a relic.

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #20

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edwin wrote: I would like to see the rare GP tokens be capped at 500 GP to make it easier for transmutes. Currently one is at 600 and the other at 450. Make the 600 a 500 and flow the 100GP down to the uncommon or common token. I don't think increasing the number of GP tokens is needed since it would not help out first time players getting a token they in almost any run would have no use for.


This isn't about increasing the number of tokens that just give GP. It is actually the exact opposite. Tokens that have an in-game effect would also have a GP value. We've been doing this with Commons for a couple years, this effectively repeats that at Uncommon and Rare. I'd actually do something like 6 Rares at 200GP (say an Ioun Stone, a Charm, a Neck, a Ring, Pants, and a Bracers), two Uncommons at 100 GP each (say an Earcuff and Gloves) and a 50 GP common like we've been doing (some sort of gear). Each of these would be equippable with in-game effects in addition to their GP value.

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #21

Fiddy wrote:

edwin wrote: I would like to see the rare GP tokens be capped at 500 GP to make it easier for transmutes. Currently one is at 600 and the other at 450. Make the 600 a 500 and flow the 100GP down to the uncommon or common token. I don't think increasing the number of GP tokens is needed since it would not help out first time players getting a token they in almost any run would have no use for.


This isn't about increasing the number of tokens that just give GP. It is actually the exact opposite. Tokens that have an in-game effect would also have a GP value. We've been doing this with Commons for a couple years, this effectively repeats that at Uncommon and Rare. I'd actually do something like 6 Rares at 200GP (say an Ioun Stone, a Charm, a Neck, a Ring, Pants, and a Bracers), two Uncommons at 100 GP each (say an Earcuff and Gloves) and a 50 GP common like we've been doing (some sort of gear). Each of these would be equippable with in-game effects in addition to their GP value.


Dual purpose tokens I would prefer to reduce mystic silk and alchemist parchment and make them GP instead.

To have tokens transmute one of two ways is a complication.

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #22

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.


Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.

For one aspect, look at the raw number of trade goods it takes to build a relic (total count works). Observe how is has grown annually since 2018.

Price out buying the trade goods from TD tavern for blessed redoubt helm vs necklace of the sneak vs sacred necklace. Price it out again for auction average TG price.

This year, auction average price has dropped from 2019, however we now regularly see “augmented” auctions that add extra stuff to the auction without changing the funding goal. If you look at the TG prices for unaugumented auctions only, you’ll find that TG prices have not dropped at the same rate that transmute costs have gone up. I believe we are getting to the point where a 1k order will not guarantee enough TG to build a relic.


The one issue I have with this analysis (meaning looking at the current price of trade goods and adding everything up) is that today's prices weren't the same as what they were years ago when the older relics were being made. Silk used to go for triple or more than what it is now. Gold, oil, aragonite and others were also going for more. Maybe the new relics are more expensive, but maybe not as much as people think. Also, just my gut, but I do feel it's easier to pick up a completed relic nowadays on the secondary market and through auctions then it was a few years back. Same with Legendaries. Some have been selling on ebay in the $800 range. Years ago you couldn't find them for less then 1K.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi

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Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #23

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

NightGod wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can see where Fiddy's coming from but I agree with Matthew, unless there's a compelling reason for Tokens to transmute into multiple Trade classifications I say let things be. Historically I think only Plank has been high on the supply side. Stone used to go for a buck and now it's in more demand, I could use some more myself whereas in years past I used to have a ton. Same for Silk, used to be pricier and harder to get but now it's like Plank. Easiest thing to still do is bump up the recipes if we feel there's a glut.

Bumping the recipes has gotten rather extreme recently.

I would prefer that sets have a nearly fixed amount of TG and if it looks like there will be extra X, change one or more of the C tokens to a GP token.

Oh, too much silk in the final final tokens? Change the +2 cloak of resistance to the 100gp jeweled +2 cloak of resistance. In this case, the cloak no longer transmutes to silk, but to gold bar. The glut of silk in that set is fixed, players get a more steady supply of gold, everyone wins.

Agreed on the bumping of recipes being extreme. The cost of making a relic this year is up over $100 more than making one two years ago. That number hurt to see, honestly.


Just curious, you mention over $100 increase for this year's relics over the last few years. How did you come up with that? On the secondary market the prices of Relics over the last few years seems to be about the same.

For one aspect, look at the raw number of trade goods it takes to build a relic (total count works). Observe how is has grown annually since 2018.

Price out buying the trade goods from TD tavern for blessed redoubt helm vs necklace of the sneak vs sacred necklace. Price it out again for auction average TG price.

This year, auction average price has dropped from 2019, however we now regularly see “augmented” auctions that add extra stuff to the auction without changing the funding goal. If you look at the TG prices for unaugumented auctions only, you’ll find that TG prices have not dropped at the same rate that transmute costs have gone up. I believe we are getting to the point where a 1k order will not guarantee enough TG to build a relic.


The one issue I have with this analysis (meaning looking at the current price of trade goods and adding everything up) is that today's prices weren't the same as what they were years ago when the older relics were being made. Silk used to go for triple or more than what it is now. Gold, oil, aragonite and others were also going for more. Maybe the new relics are more expensive, but maybe not as much as people think. Also, just my gut, but I do feel it's easier to pick up a completed relic nowadays on the secondary market and through auctions then it was a few years back. Same with Legendaries. Some have been selling on ebay in the $800 range. Years ago you couldn't find them for less then 1K.

How far back are you talking for price of trade goods? I would have to consult my spreadsheet that tracks this stuff, but I believe 2018 silk averaged around 1.15 and now is closer to 1.00. Stone has actually about tripled in price since then. Here is a sample auction - the first one I ever participated in:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=584&id=248428&start=0

Use those prices to build a blessed redoubt helm (my first relic) and then build a sacred necklace from the most recent completed auction:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=584&id=252713

What do you see price wise?

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Last edit: by Endgame.

Suggestion: GP on more items 2 years 11 months ago #24

The idea is to give players something to use, that can also be turned into GP.

100 GP +1 Fine Cloak of Protection
+1 to all saves

May convert to.mystic silk or GP bar

Maybe the letters get smaller on top

Or a blanket statement of "Some tokens have both a transmute path and a GP value. Any token with GP value may be turn into GP instead of what it would otherwise become"

Anyhow, I love the idea
1. New players don’t get complete blanks in their only 10 pack.
2. Those of us degenerate token hoarders can convert as needed to either token.
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