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TOPIC: Minor Critique of V4c

Minor Critique of V4c 4 weeks 12 hours ago #25

jedibcg wrote: Reposting because I now have the correct time.

Okay all runs have started so I should be safe to post this.

Loved the idea of the bonus room. Hated there was potential extra treasure in it. It could easily become like the stamps as I witnessed firsthand as a player wanted to finish the room early to potentially get more treasure when there was a player whom it was their first time playing.

I know it was added as a nice little bonus for some but just seems like it is too easy to get abused like the stamps, imo. I would recommend not doing something like that in the future.


100% disagree.

Ran 3 times last weekend. Went to the bonus room 2 times. Found the bonus treasure 1 time.

This was a fun surprise and if anyone is ruining someone's experience over a few measly treasure chips, I blame that person not the game. The bonus room was a neat surprise after having run this dungeon so many times in the past and the few extra treasure just heightend the fun.

Unexpected things like this and the betrayal t-shirt from back in the day are stories that are told over and over and add to the mystique of True Dungeon. They remind you that anything is possible in the dungeon and keeps us on our toes and looking.

Personally, I'll take a fun story of a surprise that I missed over not having more surprises like these.

Jeff, Lori, and team, thanks for continuing to include things like this!
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Minor Critique of V4c 4 weeks 11 hours ago #26

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SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Reposting because I now have the correct time.

Okay all runs have started so I should be safe to post this.

Loved the idea of the bonus room. Hated there was potential extra treasure in it. It could easily become like the stamps as I witnessed firsthand as a player wanted to finish the room early to potentially get more treasure when there was a player whom it was their first time playing.

I know it was added as a nice little bonus for some but just seems like it is too easy to get abused like the stamps, imo. I would recommend not doing something like that in the future.


100% disagree.

Ran 3 times last weekend. Went to the bonus room 2 times. Found the bonus treasure 1 time.

This was a fun surprise and if anyone is ruining someone's experience over a few measly treasure chips, I blame that person not the game. The bonus room was a neat surprise after having run this dungeon so many times in the past and the few extra treasure just heightend the fun.

Unexpected things like this and the betrayal t-shirt from back in the day are stories that are told over and over and add to the mystique of True Dungeon. They remind you that anything is possible in the dungeon and keeps us on our toes and looking.

Personally, I'll take a fun story of a surprise that I missed over not having more surprises like these.

Jeff, Lori, and team, thanks for continuing to include things like this!


Please read again my critique is not the bonus room. It was the potential treasure in the bonus room that is the issue.
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Minor Critique of V4c 4 weeks 10 hours ago #27

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:
Unexpected things like this and the betrayal t-shirt from back in the day are stories that are told over and over and add to the mystique of True Dungeon. They remind you that anything is possible in the dungeon and keeps us on our toes and looking.


I fully agree that having the fun little extra surprises are a nice touch, but at the same time as fun as hearing those stories are, they also have tended to come with some not so great things as well I've noticed. I don't believe we were part of the game when the shirt was a thing, but I've heard the stories and every time the stories come up it has always gone from being a cool 'omg remember the shirt' to a 'remember how people were actually fighting over playing the rogue class once it got out'. Same general thing with the ducks, I believe.

From my own personal experience, our first run was back in 2013 and we ran twice. The first run was absolutely amazing. We ran with a great group, some veteran folk at the time, and our rogue was a surgeon so very good at the rogue box lol. They lent us tokens, explained everything, and after our run actually took us aside and warned us that though most groups were pretty good, we may run in to the occasional 'problem children' (is a nice way to put it).

Our only other run that year was with a group of said 'problem children' and part of the issue was when it came to every puzzle room they solved it instantly. I'm talking walked in, went to the answer, solved it, boom, done. When we chimed in about it I remember to this day what we were told: "It doesn't matter if you're enjoying yourself, we want the treasure".

We've discussed those two runs at length over the years, and both husband and I agree that if we had run them in reverse order or only played the once with the problem party, we probably wouldn't have continued to play because it left such a bad taste in our mouths. Would we blame the game? No, but it can be very hard to return to something like that if that is your experience. And I was actually pretty surprised this weekend the number of people we ran with that hadn't played V4 at all, or hadn't played V4B so hadn't seen the new room 7.

I love the little surprises, like the bonus rooms or the sign boards with mysterious~ writing on them, and the hidden potions. All good things! I have also absolutely been loving the way that the VTD games have allowed for some more creative game types and fun party interactions between both fellow party members and the DM. But I think that throwing extra treasure potential into the mix is just the wrong call and stands to cause more trouble than it is worth. At least at this time. I will admit, maybe in person, where party members can roam about and be doing different things and we aren't reliant on only acting through a golem something could work that keeps the balance.

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Minor Critique of V4c 4 weeks 9 hours ago #28

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This is why we cant have nice things, for long XD
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Minor Critique of V4c 4 weeks 7 hours ago #29

I could care less about extra treasure that others get that I don't.

If I hear about 1 player getting railroaded so others *might* get an extra treasure they heard about on another run, and TD loses a potential long term player from it, that's where issues start.

New effects are fun. New effects that might cause people to miss out are an issue.

Is +1 treasure really that much different than a stamp? It should be, but I bet it isn't.
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Minor Critique of V4c 3 weeks 5 days ago #30

jedibcg wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Reposting because I now have the correct time.

Okay all runs have started so I should be safe to post this.

Loved the idea of the bonus room. Hated there was potential extra treasure in it. It could easily become like the stamps as I witnessed firsthand as a player wanted to finish the room early to potentially get more treasure when there was a player whom it was their first time playing.

I know it was added as a nice little bonus for some but just seems like it is too easy to get abused like the stamps, imo. I would recommend not doing something like that in the future.


100% disagree.

Ran 3 times last weekend. Went to the bonus room 2 times. Found the bonus treasure 1 time.

This was a fun surprise and if anyone is ruining someone's experience over a few measly treasure chips, I blame that person not the game. The bonus room was a neat surprise after having run this dungeon so many times in the past and the few extra treasure just heightend the fun.

Unexpected things like this and the betrayal t-shirt from back in the day are stories that are told over and over and add to the mystique of True Dungeon. They remind you that anything is possible in the dungeon and keeps us on our toes and looking.

Personally, I'll take a fun story of a surprise that I missed over not having more surprises like these.

Jeff, Lori, and team, thanks for continuing to include things like this!


Please read again my critique is not the bonus room. It was the potential treasure in the bonus room that is the issue.


I am specifically saying that I disagree that the bonus treasure is an issue. You provded one instance of one poorly behaved player which to me says it's a people problem. Bowling alleys don't put inflateable bumpers on all the lanes because a few people can't stay out of the gutter. And I don't want the team to shy-away from treasure surprises like this in the future to bumper-proof the dungeon for a few players who make selfish decisions if given the chance. The day the dungeon becomes predictable and safe is the day it stops bringing people back for more.

The bonus room was fun, but we've seen them before. The reason I shared it with those who did not run this time was because of the treasure.
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Minor Critique of V4c 3 weeks 5 days ago #31

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SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: I am specifically saying that I disagree that the bonus treasure is an issue. You provded one instance of one poorly behaved player which to me says it's a people problem. Bowling alleys don't put inflateable bumpers on all the lanes because a few people can't stay out of the gutter. And I don't want the team to shy-away from treasure surprises like this in the future to bumper-proof the dungeon for a few players who make selfish decisions if given the chance. The day the dungeon becomes predictable and safe is the day it stops bringing people back for more.

The bonus room was fun, but we've seen them before. The reason I shared it with those who did not run this time was because of the treasure.

You have been playing long enough to remember the stamps and know it is not just 1 person. It became such an issue that stamps were removed. Extra treasure doesn't make runs not be "predictable and safe." But let's talk about the "The day the dungeon becomes predictable and safe is the day it stops bringing people back for more." Considering the number of players that repeat the same dungeon again again so they see the same monsters and same puzzles makes me think there is an error in that logic.

If new players have a negative experience because someone else wants treasure more than care about that persons experience it is an issue. You can say it is an issue with the player, but there are enough of those players that it cause a fundamental change in the way the game is played. I would prefer we not go down that road again. You can disagree and that is fine.
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