TOPIC: Please Power Up Iktomi’s Shaper Necklace

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: There is almost no benefit however to using a polymorph potion since they all have inferior damage wheels to Iktomi's, and none of them have abilities good enough to make up for that.

This is, I believe, a very much 'your mileage may vary' type statement.

A legendary Druid with a handful of Polymorph tokens may turn into, at will:

Snake, Bear, Brownie, Giant Spider, Shark or Triton

This has a lot of potential in Grind or higher difficulties, and in puzzle or unconventional rooms.

It also gives this token a guaranteed expanding list of capabilities as time goes on.

I had a lot of fun turning into a giant spider in one room of v3a, for reasons I won't post here due to spoilage. Another Druid I run with regularly got great use out of the Gremlin and Shark in previous VTD modules.

I do think it would be good to have more separation between the Relic and Legendary. But I don't think it needs to be an extreme adjustment. Being able to change to different forms in a single room would be potentially useful. Being able to merge potions with elemental forms would also be pretty cool. These also fit solidly into the current theme of the necklace.

I don't think there needs to be an adjustment to add bonuses to damage or healing as part of the necklace. That isn't the theme being explored by the token currently. I could see a small tweak to spellcasting that fits in with the theme though... how about while in elemental form, you can freely change the damage type of your spells to the damage type done by your form? A limited form of Circlet/Crown of Elemental Mastery.

Oh, not just get bonus, but combined? So we could become a...
Fire spider, or
Earth gremlin, or
Water cobra, or
Sharknado (air shark)

This sounds awesome!

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: There is almost no benefit however to using a polymorph potion since they all have inferior damage wheels to Iktomi's, and none of them have abilities good enough to make up for that.

This is, I believe, a very much 'your mileage may vary' type statement.

A legendary Druid with a handful of Polymorph tokens may turn into, at will:

Snake, Bear, Brownie, Giant Spider, Shark or Triton

This has a lot of potential in Grind or higher difficulties, and in puzzle or unconventional rooms.

It also gives this token a guaranteed expanding list of capabilities as time goes on.

I had a lot of fun turning into a giant spider in one room of v3a, for reasons I won't post here due to spoilage. Another Druid I run with regularly got great use out of the Gremlin and Shark in previous VTD modules.

I do think it would be good to have more separation between the Relic and Legendary. But I don't think it needs to be an extreme adjustment. Being able to change to different forms in a single room would be potentially useful. Being able to merge potions with elemental forms would also be pretty cool. These also fit solidly into the current theme of the necklace.

I don't think there needs to be an adjustment to add bonuses to damage or healing as part of the necklace. That isn't the theme being explored by the token currently. I could see a small tweak to spellcasting that fits in with the theme though... how about while in elemental form, you can freely change the damage type of your spells to the damage type done by your form? A limited form of Circlet/Crown of Elemental Mastery.

That sounds like a solid idea. Thematically appropriate.

Hey, if you could combine the Air Elemental with Potion of Polymorph: Shark to form the Sharknado that would HAVE to be a Legendary ability! ^_^

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: 1) Allow someone with the Legendary to polymorph into multiple creatures per turn. That was a last second nerf in the design process and should be reversed.
2) Make the Legendary version of the Elementals more powerful, including abilities like flight with the Air Elemental. Or, keep the Elementals as they are, but give it more powerful Polymorph options in addition to those.
3) Add a significant damage and/or to hit bonus, such as many other Class Legendaries have.
4) Allow it to have the bonuses from a polymorph potion while in elemental form (kind of like what was proposed for the Wizard familiars).
5) I'm sure there are lots of additional possibilities.

I'm not sure what #1 would do, unless you mean allow swapping elemental forms between types per ROOM? That I can get behind. Maybe a benefit at legendary to add some spice to it.

Adding secondary effects for the Elementals could be cool. But we've seen what having a token give FLY does.. Probably not this option.

+to hit and/or +to damage in polymorph could be an option. But I honestly think a better option would be to add +5 to spell damage and healing for the Legendary so it benefits poly builds as well as spellcasters and healers. Give all flavors of Druid a bump.

Not sure there's a big benefit to allowing poly potions to impart benefits but that could also be an option.

As a generalist player I would say the +spell damage and healing bonus, combined with multiple elementals in 1 room would be solid boosts to make the Druid Legendary more wanted.

That's ultimately a question for the Druid public tho.

Regarding #1, you're right, what I'm really asking for is removal of the one creature type per room restriction. I don't think that's at all broken, and would add some fun at the Legendary level.

Why is FLY overpowered? I feel like I missed some history here.

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Why is FLY overpowered? I feel like I missed some history here.

Unrestricted flight breaks the concept of many puzzle rooms.

So whenever we get “fly” in Td it is something like what Finnish fizzy lifting pack or potion leaping attack does, which is full of restrictions.

I feel the real issue here is that the legendary just isn't much better than the relic.

Therefore we should tone down the relic (which is way too good) so that the legendary as it is looks as good as it should.

Fiddy wrote: Being able to change to different forms in a single room would be potentially useful. Being able to merge potions with elemental forms would also be pretty cool. These also fit solidly into the current theme of the necklace.

I could see a small tweak to spellcasting that fits in with the theme though... how about while in elemental form, you can freely change the damage type of your spells to the damage type done by your form? A limited form of Circlet/Crown of Elemental Mastery.

+1 all of this. From a thematic point of view I am especially intrigued by the idea of spellcasting _as_ an elemental being something different/more than just doing both things contemporaneously.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Why is FLY overpowered? I feel like I missed some history here.

Unrestricted flight breaks the concept of many puzzle rooms.

So whenever we get “fly” in Td it is something like what Finnish fizzy lifting pack or potion leaping attack does, which is full of restrictions.

If Flight is only a puzzle problem, maybe “Can fly during combat”

Anthony Barnstable wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Why is FLY overpowered? I feel like I missed some history here.

Unrestricted flight breaks the concept of many puzzle rooms.

So whenever we get “fly” in Td it is something like what Finnish fizzy lifting pack or potion leaping attack does, which is full of restrictions.

If Flight is only a puzzle problem, maybe “Can fly during combat”

Good idea.

I'd even be down for a effect you can pick at the beginning of the dungeon (like the kilt) that would reinforce the jack of all trades versatile class roll...just been pondering.

Dragon6483 wrote: I'd even be down for a effect you can pick at the beginning of the dungeon (like the kilt) that would reinforce the jack of all trades versatile class roll...just been pondering.

That could be applied to the Ranger and the Druid to allow the necklaces to swap per build.

Choose One-
Abilities of Shaper Relic + can change to different forms in each room and +2 to hit with Polymorph Attacks
OR
+5 to Healing +5 to Spell Damage and +1 Spell Surge/game

Could do similar for Ranger, giving them a melee option as well