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TOPIC: 2021 Rare Almost Final!

2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #25

David Zych wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Holy cats - Medallion of Inner Faith. 40 HP as a free action seems like a lot.


It's less total healing than the previous revision (6 to "all others" = 54) but far simpler to understand, which I think is great. A fantastic way to help keep your party alive for new players running Normal. (I still remember those days -- I was so excited when I pulled Medallion of Focus out of my free 10-pack and suddenly my 1pt heals were doubled!)

Agree here that its less healing than the old version, and also easier to manage. It erases 1 puzzle mistake (those are 3-5 damage in normal, right?), where the FA portion won't matter at all. If the player is going to do a combat cast, keeping it FA makes for a nice progression to the UR and Relic in this set.
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #26

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Necklace of the Woodlands is way too good.

While I know Carbondale is the home of the Saluki, isn't that literally the same effect as tokendb.com/token/figurine-of-power-moon-beetle/

If we're pumping up consumables, maybe +1 sling stone of smiting?


How is this?



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Author of the never-to-be-released "The Secret of Trees"

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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #27

Wow, those are awesome!

Excellent changes IMO.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #28

Most of the class amulets I can see getting a lot of use in Red builds but the Bard one feels very weak. The Lyre of Lore is quite easy to find and is also one of the best instruments for a Red player to use. How about something like: Bardsong bonus gains +1 hit & damage for rest of room (1/game)?
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #29

Jeff Martin wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Thank you again for burning the midnight oil on this, Jeff.

Dwarven Drinking Gloves text is in passive voice. Perhaps "Heal 2 pts when you use any Uncommon or Rare potion."


How is this?


Looks good!
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #30

BrainScan wrote: Most of the class amulets I can see getting a lot of use in Red builds but the Bard one feels very weak. The Lyre of Lore is quite easy to find and is also one of the best instruments for a Red player to use. How about something like: Bardsong bonus gains +1 hit & damage for rest of room (1/game)?

Doesn’t the bard neck item allow:

Round 1) play lyre of echos, do lore check.
Round 2) attack due to lyre of echos
Round3) bardsong with echos
Round 4) attack

All while adding +2 Dex?
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #31

Endgame wrote:

BrainScan wrote: Most of the class amulets I can see getting a lot of use in Red builds but the Bard one feels very weak. The Lyre of Lore is quite easy to find and is also one of the best instruments for a Red player to use. How about something like: Bardsong bonus gains +1 hit & damage for rest of room (1/game)?

Doesn’t the bard neck item allow:

Round 1) play lyre of echos, do lore check.
Round 2) attack due to lyre of echos
Round3) bardsong with echos
Round 4) attack

All while adding +2 Dex?


You could also:
Round 1: Bardsong, Lore, attack with Blowgun Flute
Rounds 2+: Bardsong and Flute

With the Dex bonus to improve your to-hit.
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #32

Probably does need a little something else. +3 dex instead of 2 would be an additional bump for a 4th level bard.
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #33

BrainScan wrote: Most of the class amulets I can see getting a lot of use in Red builds but the Bard one feels very weak. The Lyre of Lore is quite easy to find and is also one of the best instruments for a Red player to use. How about something like: Bardsong bonus gains +1 hit & damage for rest of room (1/game)?

It's been noted that this is one of the weaker Rare neck items. I think it would be better to add +1 to hit (like the old UC Lyre of Rage) and have it be unlimited per game rather than a +1/+1 Lute of Fury effect 1/game.

My thought is that 1/game effects can be tough to juggle if you don't know when the last room is a "boss fight" or a puzzle. When do you burn that effect? Yes, that's part of the game, but it also leads to situations where less experienced players never use the ability because it might have been more useful later. So, a weaker persistent effect will actually get used.

And, yes, the Paladin neck item also has a 1/game stipulation. I guess I see that as easier for the Pally to judge: if someone else is low on HP and not healed at the start of a combat, they can activate it.
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #34

Endgame wrote:

BrainScan wrote: Most of the class amulets I can see getting a lot of use in Red builds but the Bard one feels very weak. The Lyre of Lore is quite easy to find and is also one of the best instruments for a Red player to use. How about something like: Bardsong bonus gains +1 hit & damage for rest of room (1/game)?

Doesn’t the bard neck item allow:

Round 1) play lyre of echos, do lore check.
Round 2) attack due to lyre of echos
Round3) bardsong with echos
Round 4) attack

All while adding +2 Dex?


No, because of how Lyre of Echoes works:

...Bards may switch to playing a different instrument in the “off-rounds”. However, the effects of the instrument being played in those off-rounds will replace (not stack with) the effects granted by Lyre of Echoes....

I suppose you could say "a-ha! but I'm just using unaided bardsong the second round" - but I'm sure the ruling will be you can't stack bardsongs no-way, no-how.
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #35

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

BrainScan wrote: Most of the class amulets I can see getting a lot of use in Red builds but the Bard one feels very weak. The Lyre of Lore is quite easy to find and is also one of the best instruments for a Red player to use. How about something like: Bardsong bonus gains +1 hit & damage for rest of room (1/game)?

Doesn’t the bard neck item allow:

Round 1) play lyre of echos, do lore check.
Round 2) attack due to lyre of echos
Round3) bardsong with echos
Round 4) attack

All while adding +2 Dex?


No, because of how Lyre of Echoes works:

...Bards may switch to playing a different instrument in the “off-rounds”. However, the effects of the instrument being played in those off-rounds will replace (not stack with) the effects granted by Lyre of Echoes....

I suppose you could say "a-ha! but I'm just using unaided bardsong the second round" - but I'm sure the ruling will be you can't stack bardsongs no-way, no-how.

This confuses me - the goal is to attack every other round with echos with, say, a melee weapon, not play another instrument. The bard neck allows a lore check and bardsong. One would presume that the lore check is in addition to what ever instrument is being played.
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2021 Rare Almost Final! 3 years 7 months ago #36

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

BrainScan wrote: Most of the class amulets I can see getting a lot of use in Red builds but the Bard one feels very weak. The Lyre of Lore is quite easy to find and is also one of the best instruments for a Red player to use. How about something like: Bardsong bonus gains +1 hit & damage for rest of room (1/game)?

Doesn’t the bard neck item allow:

Round 1) play lyre of echos, do lore check.
Round 2) attack due to lyre of echos
Round3) bardsong with echos
Round 4) attack

All while adding +2 Dex?


No, because of how Lyre of Echoes works:

...Bards may switch to playing a different instrument in the “off-rounds”. However, the effects of the instrument being played in those off-rounds will replace (not stack with) the effects granted by Lyre of Echoes....

I suppose you could say "a-ha! but I'm just using unaided bardsong the second round" - but I'm sure the ruling will be you can't stack bardsongs no-way, no-how.

This confuses me - the goal is to attack every other round with echos with, say, a melee weapon, not play another instrument. The bard neck allows a lore check and bardsong. One would presume that the lore check is in addition to what ever instrument is being played.


I misunderstood your question.

I would think you could do those 4 actions in the sequence you described - but I don't know.

A refined form of your question seems to be:

Can I use any instrument to performing Bardsong, and also do a lore check simultaneously from the Necklace of the Songbird?
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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