TOPIC: 2021 Wizard Relic & Legendary Feedback

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Losing the second free action at each spell level is a hit to it's strength.

Could we potentially get the 2nd free action spells back on the Legendary?

This would be my priority.

Happy to pay for it by giving up the the MMM power, the MeC power, or both.

I would happily give up both to get the second set of spells back and a spell damage bonus +8ish

I'd personally also enjoy having the 19-20 crit for slide spells since I do enjoy using them some times but I know that's not an overly popular thing for the class.

Free action attacks are huge. You get your spell damage bonus twice. The tome gives you the extra spells to enable that. A second set of free action spells effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn.

Getting two sets of free actions seems like overkill for a single item.

Maybe this is not the reason why it is was changed, but are there any Wizard players here who prefer this version of the Legendary to the prior version?

Or even the prior version without the Familiar ability (and perhaps something whimsical added back instead)?

Daniel White wrote: Free action attacks are huge. You get your spell damage bonus twice. The tome gives you the extra spells to enable that. A second set of free action spells effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn, while never having to slide.

This seems like overkill for a single item.

Some wizard spells, including the high damage ones, do involve a slide.

My parties often have more than 8 combat rounds in an adventure. Dungeons have 4 combat rooms maybe 1/2 the time.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Free action attacks are huge. You get your spell damage bonus twice. The tome gives you the extra spells to enable that. A second set of free action spells effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn, while never having to slide.

This seems like overkill for a single item.

Some wizard spells, including the high damage ones, do involve a slide.

Normal dungeons often have more than 8 combat rounds.

I don't think 8 free action attacks on a single item is justifiable. Heck, four probably isn't.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Maybe this is not the reason why it is was changed, but are there any Wizard players here who prefer this version of the Legendary to the prior version?

I said this late in the previous round and I'll repeat it. I believe the second round version stood on its own without the familiar. I would prefer seeing the effect of the second round return and would be willing to give up the other effects if needed.

Daniel White wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Free action attacks are huge. You get your spell damage bonus twice. The tome gives you the extra spells to enable that. A second set of free action spells effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn, while never having to slide.

This seems like overkill for a single item.

Some wizard spells, including the high damage ones, do involve a slide.

Normal dungeons often have more than 8 combat rounds.

I don't think 8 free action attacks on a single item is justifiable.

That's fine.

I'm just pointing out that whether 8 free action spells "effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn, while never having to slide" is very debatable.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Maybe this is not the reason why it is was changed, but are there any Wizard players here who prefer this version of the Legendary to the prior version?

Not me.

If the MMM effect stays, perhaps:

1. Drop the MeC effect.

2. Add "Your spell bonus applies to damage wands"?

Daniel White wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Free action attacks are huge. You get your spell damage bonus twice. The tome gives you the extra spells to enable that. A second set of free action spells effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn, while never having to slide.

This seems like overkill for a single item.

Some wizard spells, including the high damage ones, do involve a slide.

Normal dungeons often have more than 8 combat rounds.

I don't think 8 free action attacks on a single item is justifiable. Heck, four probably isn't.

Well given the Cleric one currently gives them ALL first and second level spells as a free action I think 8 spells is OK for the Wizard.

I think I've already given my opinon. Prior version - yes, Current version - no.

A couple of more comments.
With respect to MoMM, it does favor wizards over elf wizards by +2 damage. Doesn't seem fair to give preference with the legendary. As someone who plays elf wizard over wizard 95% of the time, I don't appreciate being treated like a second class wizard (Note: sarcasm intended in the prior sentence).

Also, if you need to appease the people who are losing MoMM, then you should equally appease those giving up the Charm Necklace and give us 2 more charm slots with the legendary in a addition to MEC (still sarcasm, but a little less).

Here's a constructive comment: If you feel the need to keep MEC in the legendary, then up the ante. At least once per game (if not once per room) have it double all spell damage, not just the base. That will allow wizards on a limited basis to get their damage up in the 170hp range (not out of line with damage done by other classes using their legendary).

Or, as already stated, just add more bonus spell damage to the token.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Free action attacks are huge. You get your spell damage bonus twice. The tome gives you the extra spells to enable that. A second set of free action spells effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn, while never having to slide.

This seems like overkill for a single item.

Some wizard spells, including the high damage ones, do involve a slide.

Normal dungeons often have more than 8 combat rounds.

I don't think 8 free action attacks on a single item is justifiable.

That's fine.

I'm just pointing out that whether 8 free action spells "effectively gives wizard 2 spells in combat every turn, while never having to slide" is very debatable.

Sure. We don't even need to go down that road. The Relic power is already way out of line with other class tokens. From your own thread, ( www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=5&id=251375&start=0 ), on your BiS wizard, MeC doubled Magic Missile with skill check = 2*11+33 = 55).

Even if we were just talking about four free casts of magic missile, the damage value of the relic is at least 220(!) points. Not even getting into the fact higher level spells are available.