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TOPIC: Mad Evoker's Charm and Critical Hits

Mad Evoker's Charm and Critical Hits 1 month 1 week ago #1

I wanted to clarify this bit about the Mad Evoker's Charm from tokendb:

If a wizard wearing both a MEC & a Ring of Wizardry slides a natural 20 on a Spell modified by the MEC, the damage from the Spell is tripled (×3), not quadrupled (×4)

How does this interact with spell damage bonuses? My understanding is that the bonus damage is doubled while the base damage is tripled. Is that accurate?

Concrete example of my best guess:
Baton of Focus equipped (+1 to spell damage)
Ring of Wizardry
Scorching Ray with a natural 20

The 18 base damage from scorching Ray would be tripled (MEC plus Ring of Wizardry) and the bonus spell damage would be doubled (Ring of Wizardry). This gives a total of 18*3 + 1*2 = 56.

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Last edit: by Michael.

Mad Evoker's Charm and Critical Hits 1 month 1 week ago #2

Michael wrote: I wanted to clarify this bit about the Mad Evoker's Charm from tokendb:

If a wizard wearing both a MEC & a Ring of Wizardry slides a natural 20 on a Spell modified by the MEC, the damage from the Spell is tripled (×3), not quadrupled (×4)

How does this interact with spell damage bonuses? My understanding is that the bonus damage is doubled while the base damage is tripled. Is that accurate?

Concrete example of my best guess:
Baton of Focus equipped (+1 to spell damage)
Ring of Wizardry
Scorching Ray with a natural 20

The 18 base damage from scorching Ray would be tripled (MEC plus Ring of Wizardry) and the bonus spell damage would be doubled (Ring of Wizardry). This gives a total of 18*3 + 1*2 = 56.


I assume all damage would be tripled same as a standard x3 critical hit

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Mad Evoker's Charm and Critical Hits 1 month 1 week ago #3

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Michael wrote: I wanted to clarify this bit about the Mad Evoker's Charm from tokendb:

If a wizard wearing both a MEC & a Ring of Wizardry slides a natural 20 on a Spell modified by the MEC, the damage from the Spell is tripled (×3), not quadrupled (×4)

How does this interact with spell damage bonuses? My understanding is that the bonus damage is doubled while the base damage is tripled. Is that accurate?

Concrete example of my best guess:
Baton of Focus equipped (+1 to spell damage)
Ring of Wizardry
Scorching Ray with a natural 20

The 18 base damage from scorching Ray would be tripled (MEC plus Ring of Wizardry) and the bonus spell damage would be doubled (Ring of Wizardry). This gives a total of 18*3 + 1*2 = 56.


I assume all damage would be tripled same as a standard x3 critical hit


So with this setup how much damage would a hit deal (my current understanding is 37) and how much damage would a critical hit deal (my current best guess is 56)? (Edit: I find a concrete example especially helpful to understand for myself what is going on, which is why I ask)

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Last edit: by Michael.

Mad Evoker's Charm and Critical Hits 1 month 1 week ago #4

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I assume all damage would be tripled same as a standard x3 critical hit


Except that MEC is very clear that it only doubles the base damage, even going as far as having to split the pool between targets for AoE spells.

<begin pedantry>
Multipliers in D&D (and inherited into TD) aren't really multipliers. They're "add an amount equal to the base amount"-ers. That's where the behavior of stacking two 2x multipliers equaling a single 3x multiplier comes from. Each 2x multiplier is actually adding one "base amount", giving you a total of three "base amount"s.

From this, we can infer that the 2x from the crit (which applies to spell base and item bonuses) would just add to the 2x from the MEC (which applies only to spell base), giving a total of 3x spell base + 2x item bonus.
<end pedantry>

Another way of thinking about it is that the MEC adds a bonus analogous to rogue sneak attack, which also is not doubled by a crit. This gives the final result as "2x(base + items) + base"

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Mad Evoker's Charm and Critical Hits 1 month 1 week ago #5

That appears to be relating to the Ring of Wizardry

Adds +2 To Hit on spells (not scrolls or items) requiring a combat slide and the spell will cause double damage if a natural 20 is scored. If that particular spell has additional damage bonuses, those bonuses will be doubled as well.

Note: Any time doubled damage gets doubled again, the end result is triple damage (×3), not quadruple damage (×4)

So it appears the Mad Evoker's Charm is counting as a doubling effect for the base damage.

So it does sound like you are correct.

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