TOPIC: Scroll Boom Tube?

Xavon wrote: Based on the title I was thinking like a blunder weapon that used scrolls for ammo....

Death by a thousand paper cuts?

Xavon wrote: Scroll Cannon
-4 -4 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 6 8
Turn in scroll before sliding. Does bonus damage equal to scroll's damage. +1 to hit if UC scroll is turned in, +2 to hit if Rare scroll is turned in
Usable By: Bard, Ranger, Wizard
(two handed)

Scroll Cannon
1 2 2 3 3 4 6 8 10
At the start of the adventure turn in a spell scroll, the Scroll Cannon does additional damage equal to the level of Scroll sacrificed to activate it.
A slide of a natural 1 deals the user 10 Arcane damage and the Cannon is deactivated until given another scroll for activation.
Common = +0
Uncommon = +1
Rare = +2
Ultra Rare = +10 (since AFAIK there is only 1 UR scroll )
Usable By: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Rogue
(two handed)

Thanks for posting this, Hawk. I agree wholeheartedly. Our bard had the same experience as you. He uses a heavy scroll build too (lenses of sage speed, charm of the sage, and GAST) and burned through about 40 scrolls at origins in two runs and a raid. He even ended up switching over to doing less damage with a crossbow for part of the time to try to conserve. Relative to the way wands are now handled, scrolls have become the ugly stepchild of consumables. Would love to see a solution that brings some parity and makes the scroll bard build viable for folks who aren’t one percenters. I rather like some of the spell book suggestions I’m seeing. Seems like something along those lines could do the trick.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Xavon wrote: Scroll Cannon
-4 -4 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 6 8
Turn in scroll before sliding. Does bonus damage equal to scroll's damage. +1 to hit if UC scroll is turned in, +2 to hit if Rare scroll is turned in
Usable By: Bard, Ranger, Wizard
(two handed)

Scroll Cannon
1 2 2 3 3 4 6 8 10
At the start of the adventure turn in a spell scroll, the Scroll Cannon does additional damage equal to the level of Scroll sacrificed to activate it.
A slide of a natural 1 deals the user 10 Arcane damage and the Cannon is deactivated until given another scroll for activation.
Common = +0
Uncommon = +1
Rare = +2
Ultra Rare = +10 (since AFAIK there is only 1 UR scroll )
Usable By: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Rogue
(two handed)

Nah to both.

Whole point is to avoid sliding while doing direct damage with two scrolls per round. This penalizes scroll builds far more than it helps. Pass.

Boilerplate wrote: Thanks for posting this, Hawk. I agree wholeheartedly. Our bard had the same experience as you. He uses a heavy scroll build too (lenses of sage speed, charm of the sage, and GAST) and burned through about 40 scrolls at origins in two runs and a raid. He even ended up switching over to doing less damage with a crossbow for part of the time to try to conserve. Relative to the way wands are now handled, scrolls have become the ugly stepchild of consumables. Would love to see a solution that brings some parity and makes the scroll bard build viable for folks who aren’t one percenters. I rather like some of the spell book suggestions I’m seeing. Seems like something along those lines could do the trick.

A scroll caster build isn't likely to be a starting build, considering how the player needs to stock up on scrolls before the adventure. While wands have a neat little side option baked into the wand rules mechanics now, I wouldn't want to see a similar thing done to scrolls. I'd rather see options open up through tokens equipped, and I think if there is a rare that could plant the seed in a player while having a transmute relic for those who are invested in the build that it would be helpful for both sides.

I'd really like to see something that helps boost all scrolls, but could do something extra for Magic Missile scrolls. It's such a classic spell, and it's a common that doesn't have much use above Normal difficulty due to other damage scrolls and spell options that have better output.

Best output right now is 16 damage for two scrolls. It'd be nice to see that get a bit higher for Nightmare builds. That will likely take a few more years of work though, since there aren't many scroll related equippable tokens out there right now.

Hawk Fingle wrote: I'd really like to see something that helps boost all scrolls, but could do something extra for Magic Missile scrolls. It's such a classic spell, and it's a common that doesn't have much use above Normal difficulty due to other damage scrolls and spell options that have better output.

Best output right now is 16 damage for two scrolls. It'd be nice to see that get a bit higher for Nightmare builds. That will likely take a few more years of work though, since there aren't many scroll related equippable tokens out there right now.

I would have thought 32 with two scrolls (granted, out of print scrolls): venom strike (12 poison) or frost spear (12 cold), greater arcane scroll tube, charm of the sage.

However, with recent scrolls, it's (8 +2 +2) ×2 = 24.

I do like something like use a scroll multiple times in a room mechanic, at least in terms of playability. However, it's not very thematic.

Perhaps a +2 UR ______ (charm, Ioun stone make the most sense, but very slot competitive, maybe tome) that allows a recast of a scroll once per room. Oooo, maybe a ring similar to ring of spell storing. The +2 would be static for all scrolls. Relic could allow a recast twice per room. Probably no legendary, as we're in the class specifics for the next few years. For thematic purposes, the charm, ring Ioun stone could "pierce the time vortex and grasp the magic strands of the scroll"

How about:
Leather Bound Folio (Tome)
Once per room, use a common or uncommon scroll without turning it in.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Nagahide Bound Folio (Tome)
Once per room, use a scroll without turning it in.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Demonhide Bound Folio (Tome)
Once per room, use a scroll without turning it in. Other scrolls do +2 damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Or:
Blood Ink Stiletto
0-1-1-2
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage (max +3)
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

+2 Blood Ink Stiletto
2-3-3-4
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

+3 Soul Ink Stiletto
3-4-4-5
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage.
Scrolls do Eldritch Damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Really like the blood Ink stilettos.

I am also certain that once we've got more tomes being made for the tome slot, we're going to see specialized tomes which enhance different sorts of builds - scroll based, spell based, wand based, etc.
Might take time though.

Matt Goodman wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: I'd really like to see something that helps boost all scrolls, but could do something extra for Magic Missile scrolls. It's such a classic spell, and it's a common that doesn't have much use above Normal difficulty due to other damage scrolls and spell options that have better output.

Best output right now is 16 damage for two scrolls. It'd be nice to see that get a bit higher for Nightmare builds. That will likely take a few more years of work though, since there aren't many scroll related equippable tokens out there right now.

I would have thought 32 with two scrolls (granted, out of print scrolls): venom strike (12 poison) or frost spear (12 cold), greater arcane scroll tube, charm of the sage.

However, with recent scrolls, it's (8 +2 +2) ×2 = 24.

I do like something like use a scroll multiple times in a room mechanic, at least in terms of playability. However, it's not very thematic.

Perhaps a +2 UR ______ (charm, Ioun stone make the most sense, but very slot competitive, maybe tome) that allows a recast of a scroll once per room. Oooo, maybe a ring similar to ring of spell storing. The +2 would be static for all scrolls. Relic could allow a recast twice per room. Probably no legendary, as we're in the class specifics for the next few years. For thematic purposes, the charm, ring Ioun stone could "pierce the time vortex and grasp the magic strands of the scroll"

I was referring to the best output on Magic Missile scrolls, not all scrolls in general.

Xavon wrote: How about:
Leather Bound Folio (Tome)
Once per room, use a common or uncommon scroll without turning it in.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Nagahide Bound Folio (Tome)
Once per room, use a scroll without turning it in.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Demonhide Bound Folio (Tome)
Once per room, use a scroll without turning it in. Other scrolls do +2 damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

These seem really watered down for a tome slot in comparison to other tomes. Considering a rare charm grants a +2 bonus, and the scrolls involved wouldn't be subject to the Greater Arcane Scroll Tube bonus, it isn't strong enough unless you have a +2 bonus minimum starting at rare and raise it alongside the rarity. The once/room restriction saves one scroll over four combats, resulting in four scrolls saved out of potentially 40-60 scrolls used. That might work for a new player at Normal, but doesn't really help for higher difficulty builds.

Or:
Blood Ink Stiletto
0-1-1-2
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage (max +3)
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

+2 Blood Ink Stiletto
2-3-3-4
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

+3 Soul Ink Stiletto
3-4-4-5
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage.
Scrolls do Eldritch Damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Would the bonus to scroll damage apply only while wielding the weapon? How would it work with the Legendary Widseth's? Is a slide required? Why only Bards and Wizards and not all scroll casters?

I guess I don't see the point in making a weapon that interacts with scrolls when the scroll caster would never slide and cast a scroll at the same time. Then again, the Focus weapons add to spells and a spell caster doesn't slide and cast at the same time.

Maybe I'm biased because I don't like combat sliding at all and prefer to do more direct damage that has no chance of missing versus less damage that has a chance of missing. Not looking to be the top damage dealer, just looking for a scroll build that won't result in an overall cost of triple digits every con before buying tickets.

Hawk Fingle wrote:

Xavon wrote: Blood Ink Stiletto
0-1-1-2
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage (max +3)
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

+2 Blood Ink Stiletto
2-3-3-4
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

+3 Soul Ink Stiletto
3-4-4-5
Add your Int bonus (or caster bonus if implemented) to scroll damage.
Scrolls do Eldritch Damage.
Usable by: Bard & Wizards

Would the bonus to scroll damage apply only while wielding the weapon? How would it work with the Legendary Widseth's? Is a slide required? Why only Bards and Wizards and not all scroll casters?

Yes, you have to wield it. Like Orb of Might. Widseth's lets you use a wand or attack, so I would presume you could use both. No slide. Clerics can't use blades, druids can't use metal weapons, and Paladins and rangers wouldn't normally do this.