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TOPIC: Ultra Rare Token Ideas

Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 5 days ago #409

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: We've had Ring of the Eel, and Ring of the Yeti, how about:

Ring of the Salamander - +3 fire damage with spells

and/or

Ring of the Banshee - +3 sonic damage with two handed melee weapons

I don't think the ring of the banshee is a ur, given the ring of brilliance


+5 is probably more appropriate at UR level for bonuses limited to two-handed melee weapons. Boots of the East Wind makes a good comparison for example.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 5 days ago #410

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Orion Wiseman wrote: In regards to the extra rod and tooth components, one idea would be turn them in for a one use effect. If you could turn in a tooth to use one of the sub-class character cards for that run, I would expect they would be popular and the extra supply would be used up quickly.


This might be better in the transformation ideas thread, bit here it goes

4 of any tooth or rod (unique) pieces : charm of classiness any- charm - contact td staff for a once a year voucher for subclass. Must use charm on run with subclass. This could be multi year and re done when there is the next seven plus year high eldritch level item in development if sales are not high over the length of the development even with higher sales each year. I don’t know that extra vouchers is something TPTB want to deal with but it is an idea.


I think if you wanted to make a 7 year cycle item like the teeth valuable through their entire lifecycle (I missed the first 3 so haven't bothered at all with them) you need to make 3 of them a transmute item.

For example, lets say the Kilts were a 7 year item instead of a 3 year item.

any 3 years of kilts would allow you to transmute to the kilt of dungeon bane.

All 7 kilts would transmute in to the Kilt of the Dungeon Destroyer - +5 hp, +4 con, +4 str, +4 dex (or whatever).

This way, someone who comes in at the end can still create a good item, thus supporting sales at any time during the cycle. Someone around for the whole 7 year cycle can craft an even better item.


I think this could really backfire - but we'll see how the Dragon Orbs pan out because they use exactly this structure.

The backfire I'm afraid of:

Today, some people who miss the first N still pick up the early ones on the secondary market, and keep buying the rest.

Also, people buy and hoard the early ones.

If any 3 can be transmuted for something good, I think it is likely to decrease demand, not increase it.

Another way to stimulate demand would be a point system:

7 year transmute, the transmute needs 11 points worth of items.

Year1 - 3 points
Year2, 3 - 2 points
Year4-7 - 1 point

As the time passes later pieces still are desirable to make up the 11 points needed for the transmute for people who didn't get on the train at the beginning.


I don't see how a lesser and greater item would decrease demand. At the very least, year 1-3 sales should be the same, as you'll still have people order a bunch of year 1 and 2 to horde for secondary sales and another batch of people buying and keeping them around for the greater item. I would also expect some extra purchases early so the lesser item can be made after year 3 or 4 to extend the set bonus before the greater item is available. Finally, I would expect people in the same situation as me (started paying attention in year 4 of a cycle - there are probably a lot of us) to actually purchase mid cycle thus sustaining demand for the whole cycle. Tooth 1 - 3 are just way too expensive to consider back purchasing, but if I could have made something with 4-7, I would have picked up 4 during my auction purchases.

As for the proposed point system, I'm not a fan. It is still too top heavy for jumping in on year one. Maybe 9 points total, with years 1 and 2 being 2 points each?

Finally, with the "any 3" or "any 4" suggestion I have for the lesser item, I do think it would need to be any 3 or 4 unique items - just being able to use 3 or 4 of year 7 might not be the best plan. On the other hand, demand would be high on year 7...
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 5 days ago #411

Endgame wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Endgame wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Orion Wiseman wrote: In regards to the extra rod and tooth components, one idea would be turn them in for a one use effect. If you could turn in a tooth to use one of the sub-class character cards for that run, I would expect they would be popular and the extra supply would be used up quickly.


This might be better in the transformation ideas thread, bit here it goes

4 of any tooth or rod (unique) pieces : charm of classiness any- charm - contact td staff for a once a year voucher for subclass. Must use charm on run with subclass. This could be multi year and re done when there is the next seven plus year high eldritch level item in development if sales are not high over the length of the development even with higher sales each year. I don’t know that extra vouchers is something TPTB want to deal with but it is an idea.


I think if you wanted to make a 7 year cycle item like the teeth valuable through their entire lifecycle (I missed the first 3 so haven't bothered at all with them) you need to make 3 of them a transmute item.

For example, lets say the Kilts were a 7 year item instead of a 3 year item.

any 3 years of kilts would allow you to transmute to the kilt of dungeon bane.

All 7 kilts would transmute in to the Kilt of the Dungeon Destroyer - +5 hp, +4 con, +4 str, +4 dex (or whatever).

This way, someone who comes in at the end can still create a good item, thus supporting sales at any time during the cycle. Someone around for the whole 7 year cycle can craft an even better item.


I suspect if something like this happened, it would be 4 pieces for the lesser transmute. No hard proof, just based on the majority of the patterns we've seen (I see the Kilt as a bit of an outlier).

Sure, that would work too - just the details that would need to be worked out if you went for lesser and greater for each 7 year transmute. You probably wouldn't ever do a stand alone lesser transmute like the kilt with this plan either - all the lessers are just part of the 7 year cycle. You could even print the 4 year item twice - once at the end of 4 years, and then again at the end of the 7 years. That way you would get people possibly ordering extra on year 1-4 to make the lesser, but have some extras on hand to make the greater item at the end of 7 years.

Power level would have to be kept in check too - you want the greater item to be better than the lesser, but probably not by insane portions.


I do like that idea for the Teeth, in a couple of years. There could be the full 7 item transmute, and then a lesser 4 item transmute. And maybe the 4 item transmute could have up to two of any tooth.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 5 days ago #412

Endgame wrote: I don't see how a lesser and greater item would decrease demand. At the very least, year 1-3 sales should be the same, as you'll still have people order a bunch of year 1 and 2 to horde for secondary sales and another batch of people buying and keeping them around for the greater item.


It's not a certainty. But it's possible, here are some scenarios:

Cindy the Cleric is all about healing. All Cindy cares about W/R/T the particular eldritch item in question is the set bonus adding +2 to healing. If the item required 7 pieces, Cindy would get all 7. But if there was a lesser item that still granted the same set bonus, Cindy would just get 4. Demand had reduced 3 for Cindy.

Larry the Latecomer decides to get serious about token collecting in the 3rd year of a 7 year cycle. If there was only a 7 piece, Larry would buy pieces 1, 2 on the secondary market, and then collect 3 this year, and then plan to collect 4-7 in future years. If only 4 pieces are required, Larry might look at the difference between the 7 piece and the 4 piece and decide to only collect the 4 piece. Larry does not buy pieces 1, 2 now. Larry does not even buy piece 3 this year.


There are lots of moving parts, it's hard to know if having a 4 piece and a 7 piece transmute would increase or decrease aggregate demand.

If most people who collect all 7 would be happy with 4 instead, it could easily decrease demand.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 5 days ago #413

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Endgame wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Orion Wiseman wrote: In regards to the extra rod and tooth components, one idea would be turn them in for a one use effect. If you could turn in a tooth to use one of the sub-class character cards for that run, I would expect they would be popular and the extra supply would be used up quickly.


This might be better in the transformation ideas thread, bit here it goes

4 of any tooth or rod (unique) pieces : charm of classiness any- charm - contact td staff for a once a year voucher for subclass. Must use charm on run with subclass. This could be multi year and re done when there is the next seven plus year high eldritch level item in development if sales are not high over the length of the development even with higher sales each year. I don’t know that extra vouchers is something TPTB want to deal with but it is an idea.


I think if you wanted to make a 7 year cycle item like the teeth valuable through their entire lifecycle (I missed the first 3 so haven't bothered at all with them) you need to make 3 of them a transmute item.

For example, lets say the Kilts were a 7 year item instead of a 3 year item.

any 3 years of kilts would allow you to transmute to the kilt of dungeon bane.

All 7 kilts would transmute in to the Kilt of the Dungeon Destroyer - +5 hp, +4 con, +4 str, +4 dex (or whatever).

This way, someone who comes in at the end can still create a good item, thus supporting sales at any time during the cycle. Someone around for the whole 7 year cycle can craft an even better item.


I suspect if something like this happened, it would be 4 pieces for the lesser transmute. No hard proof, just based on the majority of the patterns we've seen (I see the Kilt as a bit of an outlier).

Sure, that would work too - just the details that would need to be worked out if you went for lesser and greater for each 7 year transmute. You probably wouldn't ever do a stand alone lesser transmute like the kilt with this plan either - all the lessers are just part of the 7 year cycle. You could even print the 4 year item twice - once at the end of 4 years, and then again at the end of the 7 years. That way you would get people possibly ordering extra on year 1-4 to make the lesser, but have some extras on hand to make the greater item at the end of 7 years.

Power level would have to be kept in check too - you want the greater item to be better than the lesser, but probably not by insane portions.


I do like that idea for the Teeth, in a couple of years. There could be the full 7 item transmute, and then a lesser 4 item transmute. And maybe the 4 item transmute could have up to two of any tooth.


I would strongly suggest against introducing a new transmute path for Teeth 5 years into a 7 year transmute collection process.

I'd save these ideas for next time.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 5 days ago #414

I'm starting a new discussion over here:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=249009

For the not-2019-ur-idea-discussion of "how to make 7 year transmutes more evenly desirable."
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 5 days ago #415

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Endgame wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Orion Wiseman wrote: In regards to the extra rod and tooth components, one idea would be turn them in for a one use effect. If you could turn in a tooth to use one of the sub-class character cards for that run, I would expect they would be popular and the extra supply would be used up quickly.


This might be better in the transformation ideas thread, bit here it goes

4 of any tooth or rod (unique) pieces : charm of classiness any- charm - contact td staff for a once a year voucher for subclass. Must use charm on run with subclass. This could be multi year and re done when there is the next seven plus year high eldritch level item in development if sales are not high over the length of the development even with higher sales each year. I don’t know that extra vouchers is something TPTB want to deal with but it is an idea.


I think if you wanted to make a 7 year cycle item like the teeth valuable through their entire lifecycle (I missed the first 3 so haven't bothered at all with them) you need to make 3 of them a transmute item.

For example, lets say the Kilts were a 7 year item instead of a 3 year item.

any 3 years of kilts would allow you to transmute to the kilt of dungeon bane.

All 7 kilts would transmute in to the Kilt of the Dungeon Destroyer - +5 hp, +4 con, +4 str, +4 dex (or whatever).

This way, someone who comes in at the end can still create a good item, thus supporting sales at any time during the cycle. Someone around for the whole 7 year cycle can craft an even better item.


I suspect if something like this happened, it would be 4 pieces for the lesser transmute. No hard proof, just based on the majority of the patterns we've seen (I see the Kilt as a bit of an outlier).

Sure, that would work too - just the details that would need to be worked out if you went for lesser and greater for each 7 year transmute. You probably wouldn't ever do a stand alone lesser transmute like the kilt with this plan either - all the lessers are just part of the 7 year cycle. You could even print the 4 year item twice - once at the end of 4 years, and then again at the end of the 7 years. That way you would get people possibly ordering extra on year 1-4 to make the lesser, but have some extras on hand to make the greater item at the end of 7 years.

Power level would have to be kept in check too - you want the greater item to be better than the lesser, but probably not by insane portions.


I do like that idea for the Teeth, in a couple of years. There could be the full 7 item transmute, and then a lesser 4 item transmute. And maybe the 4 item transmute could have up to two of any tooth.


I would strongly suggest against introducing a new transmute path for Teeth 5 years into a 7 year transmute collection process.

I'd save these ideas for next time.


Agreed, all I would be in favor of for making this cycle more appealing would he keeping some form of activators in print until it's done. Next time though, skies the limit we can consider anything.
Semper Gumby, Always flexible.

Sartre sits in in a coffee shop and asks for a coffee without cream. The barista apologizes “Sorry, we don't have any cream. Can I offer you a coffee without milk instead?”
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 4 days ago #416

+1 Sturdy Bell - Melee mainhand - All
Damage wheel: 3, 4, 5, 6
Party bonuses to Bardsong based on #SB wielders in Party:
3-6: +1/+1
7-8: +2/+2
9+: +3/+3
FoB Compatible

Note: Counts # wielders, not # weapons, so Monks and Rangers don't count as 2.

Note: Bardsong bonus is absolute not a sum across all the bells, so equip 7 bells to get +2/+2 to bardsong.

Bardsong must be being performed, doesn't create Bardsong if there is none.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 20 hours ago #417

Xavon and Brad had ideas in the rare thread on boomerangs. As a monk without FF I was dreaming on the idea of some returning shuriken and then realized boomerangs already kind of return, and an old TV series used the Chakram and it returned. In lieu of not reprinting the GoFF I would be interested in seeing another Monk option.

+2 boomerang
4-5-7-9
Melee or Range, one handed
Usable By: Fighter, Ranger, Barbarian, Druid, Monk
Returns if thrown

A GotFF monk will be using VSF and probably the +3 if not higher, these do not have poison and the return aspect is required or they do not give a real option to the GotFF. It compares well to Thor’s also being lower dps and fewer restrictions.

The classes that can use it I thought might have whittled their own or might have specifically been taught to use them. The boomerang seemed Druidy also since wood and such. If we wanted to remove them a metal disk weapon might be used. Clearly I assume two of these can be flurry of blows for the monk, it takes three URs and a glove slot to just skip these two slots and ranged to hit bonuses so figured these might be fine on their own.

Thoughts?
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
Last edit: by macxdmg. Reason: Added monk
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 19 hours ago #418

If it is a boomerang shouldn’t it only return if you miss? I guess it is magical so it could always return. The damage wheel looks off. if it were just a boomerang shouldn’t it be 1,2,3,4 so a +2 would be 3 to 7?
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 18 hours ago #419

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Endgame wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Orion Wiseman wrote: In regards to the extra rod and tooth components, one idea would be turn them in for a one use effect. If you could turn in a tooth to use one of the sub-class character cards for that run, I would expect they would be popular and the extra supply would be used up quickly.


This might be better in the transformation ideas thread, bit here it goes

4 of any tooth or rod (unique) pieces : charm of classiness any- charm - contact td staff for a once a year voucher for subclass. Must use charm on run with subclass. This could be multi year and re done when there is the next seven plus year high eldritch level item in development if sales are not high over the length of the development even with higher sales each year. I don’t know that extra vouchers is something TPTB want to deal with but it is an idea.


I think if you wanted to make a 7 year cycle item like the teeth valuable through their entire lifecycle (I missed the first 3 so haven't bothered at all with them) you need to make 3 of them a transmute item.

For example, lets say the Kilts were a 7 year item instead of a 3 year item.

any 3 years of kilts would allow you to transmute to the kilt of dungeon bane.

All 7 kilts would transmute in to the Kilt of the Dungeon Destroyer - +5 hp, +4 con, +4 str, +4 dex (or whatever).

This way, someone who comes in at the end can still create a good item, thus supporting sales at any time during the cycle. Someone around for the whole 7 year cycle can craft an even better item.


I suspect if something like this happened, it would be 4 pieces for the lesser transmute. No hard proof, just based on the majority of the patterns we've seen (I see the Kilt as a bit of an outlier).

Sure, that would work too - just the details that would need to be worked out if you went for lesser and greater for each 7 year transmute. You probably wouldn't ever do a stand alone lesser transmute like the kilt with this plan either - all the lessers are just part of the 7 year cycle. You could even print the 4 year item twice - once at the end of 4 years, and then again at the end of the 7 years. That way you would get people possibly ordering extra on year 1-4 to make the lesser, but have some extras on hand to make the greater item at the end of 7 years.

Power level would have to be kept in check too - you want the greater item to be better than the lesser, but probably not by insane portions.


I do like that idea for the Teeth, in a couple of years. There could be the full 7 item transmute, and then a lesser 4 item transmute. And maybe the 4 item transmute could have up to two of any tooth.


I would strongly suggest against introducing a new transmute path for Teeth 5 years into a 7 year transmute collection process.

I'd save these ideas for next time.


My apologies, I meant Rod and not Tooth. I do agree that decision point is a couple of years away. I’m not sure if I’d ever recommend the tooth cycle be repeated, there are going to be an awful lot of them made.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 15 hours ago #420

jedibcg wrote: If it is a boomerang shouldn’t it only return if you miss? I guess it is magical so it could always return. The damage wheel looks off. if it were just a boomerang shouldn’t it be 1,2,3,4 so a +2 would be 3 to 7?


There isn’t a precedence on tokendb for boomerang so I took artistic leeway, I wanted something that rivaled the VSF with GotFF at UR level that wasn’t a ranged version of the VSF. I do think that means with +2 it needs to be from 4 to 9 and should swing towards the lower end of middle. With poison it would need to be 5-10 so this would average less (with the higher spaced high end) and would not have poison resistances to concern dm’s with.

How I don’t know I care about, 4,5,6,7 seems really low for a comparison though. 4,5,6,7,8,9 seems to average better than I prefer. I mean as a player I like the crap out of that line, I just recognize it might be too much. 4,4,6,7,8,9 I like less than 4,5,7,9.

I would be open to suggestions?
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
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