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TOPIC: Electronic tickets

Electronic tickets 5 years 10 months ago #37

kurtreznor wrote: What if waivers were collected as players enter training?

When players check-in, give them a waiver with the wristbands and tokens. They can sign it any time before training.

This could allow one person to check in for all 10 tickets, get all the wristbands, tokens, and waivers to hand out as they like. You avoid having purchasers standing around at check in waiting for peiple to show up. Or worse, waiting for their friend who is running late...it is then the purchasers responsibilty to get that wristband on a player or ghost it, no need for TD staff to worry about it. Also, turning in the waiver in training guarantees the person going on the run has turned one in.

Without handing wristbands out, how will TD deal with the late friend situation? Maybe e-tickets can be the catalyst to greatly improve this scenario, rather than let it become even worse than regular tickets.


Being a coach, I can say I dislike that idea because it's just one more thing I have to wrangle from the players. It Obviously works in situations with well experienced players who are also well organized but wouldn't work so well with the newbies who show up 2 minutes before they're supposed to move on to the Training room.
Also, I not sure there would be the same level of accountability as "Just sayin' " things could easily get misplaced in the coaches area
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Electronic tickets 5 years 10 months ago #38

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Bob Chasan wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: What if waivers were collected as players enter training?

When players check-in, give them a waiver with the wristbands and tokens. They can sign it any time before training.

This could allow one person to check in for all 10 tickets, get all the wristbands, tokens, and waivers to hand out as they like. You avoid having purchasers standing around at check in waiting for peiple to show up. Or worse, waiting for their friend who is running late...it is then the purchasers responsibilty to get that wristband on a player or ghost it, no need for TD staff to worry about it. Also, turning in the waiver in training guarantees the person going on the run has turned one in.

Without handing wristbands out, how will TD deal with the late friend situation? Maybe e-tickets can be the catalyst to greatly improve this scenario, rather than let it become even worse than regular tickets.


Being a coach, I can say I dislike that idea because it's just one more thing I have to wrangle from the players. It Obviously works in situations with well experienced players who are also well organized but wouldn't work so well with the newbies who show up 2 minutes before they're supposed to move on to the Training room.
Also, I not sure there would be the same level of accountability as "Just sayin' " things could easily get misplaced in the coaches area


The idea tries to minimize coach involvement. The players will have the waivers in their possession during coaching, but it wouldnt be until the training room that waivers are collected. There could be a tray to collect waivers on one of the tables in training room. Maybe have one person who goes around to all the training rooms to collect the waivers/verify they are complete (to reduce trainer involvement). Given 8 minutes (12 - 2 for players to filter in - 2 for story exposition), that person could pop into each training room twice; if not all waivers are complete the first time they leave blanks for the players who didnt follow instructions, then pick everything up the second time. If training rooms are too far apart for one person to complete this, set 2 volunteers on it, and any time left after collecting waivers can be used to restock coaching room supplies.
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Electronic tickets 5 years 9 months ago #39

Have we had any updates on GenCon's Electronic Ticket Transfer system? I feel like this impacts TD the most.

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Electronic tickets 5 years 9 months ago #40

Building on Matt’s stamp idea - maybe stamp the badge or give it a sticker when someone hands over their waiver. The stamp would be good for the entire con, vs a hand stamp that might wash off.

Those plastic things might be tough to mark, but it should work for the cheap paper badges at the satellites

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Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #41

Are there any updates on the E-Ticketing system? The most recent posts from GenCon support were that they won't promise the transfer function will be available this year at all. Without that, anyone doing back to back runs will have a significant problem as if they bought the run for everyone, nobody could enter without them (5 minutes for prep everyone!)

Jeff - have you had a chance to test the system yet and do you see any challenges?

We'd be happy to help out however we can. One suggestion is that anyone with extra badges (I may have an extra one or could buy a set for TD to use) loan them to TD so that those can be scanned as the "extra" people for where we have one person holding multiple tickets. That way, the main purchaser can just leave a list behind of who should be let in and prep won't be slowed down. Of course, if that purchaser is the person running late, I'm not sure how that problem gets resolved without the entire group not being let in.

Fred
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Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #42

Fred K wrote: Are there any updates on the E-Ticketing system? The most recent posts from GenCon support were that they won't promise the transfer function will be available this year at all. Without that, anyone doing back to back runs will have a significant problem as if they bought the run for everyone, nobody could enter without them (5 minutes for prep everyone!)

Jeff - have you had a chance to test the system yet and do you see any challenges?

We'd be happy to help out however we can. One suggestion is that anyone with extra badges (I may have an extra one or could buy a set for TD to use) loan them to TD so that those can be scanned as the "extra" people for where we have one person holding multiple tickets. That way, the main purchaser can just leave a list behind of who should be let in and prep won't be slowed down. Of course, if that purchaser is the person running late, I'm not sure how that problem gets resolved without the entire group not being let in.

Fred


Someone responded to your gencon forum post after you wrote this.

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Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #43

Do you have the link to the answer? I suck at forums... the only I participate in is this one

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Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #44

Harlax wrote:

Amorgen Burke wrote: If only we could have our signed waiver on file and once we've electronically signed it, never have to do it again unless the waiver changes.

This would save a TON of paper and pens and time. Then you could show on your phone that you have signed the waiver.


8000 waivers per Con, per year going forward. Presumably retained until the statute of limitations runs for that year. That's a hell of a lot of paper to store and manage.

And in Wisconsin, the waiver may not be all that effective anyway.
www.axley.com/publication_article/waivers-of-liability-are-they-worth-the-paper-they-are-written-on/
www.hallrender.com/2013/05/16/wave-goodbye-to-liability-waiver-enforceability-in-wisconsin/
www.sportwaiver.com/wisconsin-supreme-court-reinforces-its-stand-against-the-enforcement-of-waivers/


I think you are missing the point on why they were determined invalid and uninforceable.

The courts have said that people cannot be forced to sign away their inalienable rights in cases of gross negligence. In the links you provided, the fitness center was found negligent... not installing the equipment properly... therefore the injury was found preventable therefore the user could sue due to the fitness center’s negligence.

I don’t know of any legal jurisdiction where a person can sign away their rights when the other party has been found grossly negligent (also sometimes known as against public policy, what expectation a reasonable and prudent person would have).

Even in Wisconsin they have been found enforceable when the person signing the waiver didn’t disclose all their information, were stupid or careless, or had a medical condition that caused themselves to be at higher risk for said activity, or even another third party at the establishment caused harm that the establishment could in no way have foreseen and prevented, and the liability waivers did protect the establishment.

One of my many hobbies is teaching scuba diving— one of the few activities my disability doesn’t hamper. I am required by my profesional liability insurance company and even the dive agencies I teach for to have my students sign a liability release waiver (including a medical questioner that may cause me to require them to have a medical doctor sign as well)... and except in cases where the instructor or other listed agency has been negligent (gross negligence), they are enforceable and do protect the instuctor, pool owner, dive store, open water site, etc.

I attend yearly meetings where this is discussed and analyses in detail.

In the above, all three places talk about “gross negligence” not being protected by liability waivers.

Waivers do protect against silly lawsuits— someone trips over their own two feet and gets a boo-boo. If the agency did everything a reasonable and prudent person would do to make that place safe, they would be protected... but if, say, an electric cord was not taped down and said person tripped, no waiver would protect them, no matter how ridiculously worded the waiver was written to protect them against even this specific type of occurrence.

In my professional life I have been involved in liability waivers complications as well... and courts do uphold them... again provided no gross negligence can be proven. I have personally seen court cases thrown out in the first hearing where the courts upheld the liability release waivers... as well as allowing cases to proceed to see if the injured party could prove gross negligence. I have also seen it go both ways where the injured party paid all court expenses when they lost, as well as having each party pay their own expenses... even though the waiver stated the suing party has to pay both sides regardless if they won or loss...

To say they are worthless is a little careless in my opinion... if I don’t have a student sign a form I am in risk of loosing everything I own even if they are injured due to something that is completely their own fault... their next of kin could sue me and take me to the cleaners... but if I do have all my T’s dotted and I’s crossed (lol), my liability insurance will protect me from frivolous law suits in our sadly sue-happy world. And even if I were to loose, I would be covered by my insurance.

True Adventures (and even GenCon) need the waivers signed to protect themselves. The waivers also explain the risks involved in the activities. They need to show that they are using a system that does all they can reasonably do to get every participant to sign their own waiver (with adult co-signing if underage)... and if they can prove this, even if a single person finds a way to bypass signing and is then injured due to their own stupidity, they would be protected.

Just my 1 and a 1/2 cents worth...

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Last edit: by Mongo. Reason: Clarify

Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #45

Mongo wrote: Do you have the link to the answer? I suck at forums... the only I participate in is this one


Someone may have posted, but it doesn’t appear to be posted by someone official...

I could find no official posts for the past two entire months in none of the five or so threads I found... just regular people quoting posts from months ago and then others quoting them thinking maybe that they were quoting current updated info, and saying it is current info not realizing they were quoting someone recent who quoted two-month-old posts from someone official... (confused yet? I am.)

Last official word is they are trying to have transferring tickets to people in your friends list... implemented before the con, but nothing in the past two months that I could find stating progress (or official word on lack there-of).

I am with Fred K (Felwred?), and am very worried about the potential upcoming cluster-duck.

Maybe more of us could volunteer and help out customer service at check-in to help keep things on-time and running as smoothly as one can, with this major untested change to e-tickets? (Shameless plug, anyone?)

I just did... so I am not a “total” hypocrites, just a “partial”, maybe?

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Last edit: by Mongo. Reason: Clarification and auto-correct cluster-duck

Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #46

T minus 3 weeks until Gencon. Officially, it looks like they are indicating they won’t promise to have e transfer available before Gencon.

Has Jeff been able to try the system out? Any feedback?

I know he’ll be working to minimize any problems with it but updates would be great. Thank you!

Fred
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Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #47

Mike and I will be on a teleconference with Gen Con this week for a demo of the new system. I have read through their eticket FAQ and have a list of questions that I'll ask if they're not answered in the demo and discussions.

We are trying to do everything we can to make this as smooth as possible. We're working with Gen Con and LOS to get wired internet access for our terminals so that we don't have to rely on cellular connectivity underground.

Once we see the demo we will have a better idea of what we're looking at, BUT...my understanding is that if you bought 10 tickets for an event, we will scan YOUR badge and then the other 9 players badges before sending you in. If you don't all show up together, the person that bought the tickets will have to wait out front for the remaining players, as the buyer's badge gets scanned and THEN the other players.

Hopefully we'll know more after our demo. Hang in there gang! Don't go straight to nuclear. We are working on this and will know more soon.

Lori
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Lori Martin
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Electronic tickets 5 years 8 months ago #48

Lori Martin wrote: Don't go straight to nuclear.
Lori


Who? Us? Never. :laugh:

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