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TOPIC: Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020

Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #37

I agree with waiting or everyone else will want their chance to do the same neck slot tricks possibly locking in the aow for several years.
Fall down......Go boom!

Adam Guay
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #38

Adam Guay wrote: I agree with waiting or everyone else will want their chance to do the same neck slot tricks possibly locking in the aow for several years.


AoW effects often repeat. If this proves popular it has a better chance of coming back. If we defer it for 2 more years, it has a better chance of never happening at all.
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #39

Druegar wrote: This is what we're thinking about doing for the variable effect tokens this season:

Eldritch Runestone
Fire damage inflicted upon the user is reduced by 5 points per attack

Amulet of Wonder
Sacrifice two charm slots, but gain +2 neck slots (i.e., -2 charms, +2 necks--this is in addition to the one neck slot taken up by the Amulet of Wonder)

UR Special
Character gains the “Angelic” sub-type with the following benefits:

  • +4 to Dexterity (+2 To Hit with ranged attacks, +2 to AC, and +2 to Reflex saving throws)
  • Heal Other: Once per game, you may heal 4 HP on another character (no bonuses can be applied to this heal; you may not target yourself)
  • Immune to possession


Amulet of Wonder effect is bae, even though I don't have one.

I do have Eldritch Runestones and UR Specials, though, and neither of these effects would get me to spend the tokens for them.

UR Specials are consistently going for $140-$200, and using the equivalent of two or three runs to unlock a subtype for one run that adds a Dex bonus, 4 points of healing to someone else, and prevent a specific effect that may or may not happen just doesn't seem worth it to me. One-time bonus subtypes haven't been and likely will never be cool enough to merit spending the value of the token. However, if they are permanently given to the player to use whenever they want, then you're talking. Collectible subtypes of which only one can be selected by its owner in the coaching room prior to playing would make them far more interesting to me. As a one-time-only bonus, well, they really aren't worth it.

Eldritch Runestone effects have always been pretty meh for me, but then I only do dungeon runs and not grinds. The grind effects have all been better than the adventure effects with the exception of equipping an extra ioun stone. If both grind and adventure effects were included no matter what you're playing, then that would be more likely to get me to pony up my runestone. As it is now, usually the rare runestones and even the uncommons in each year's set have been a better choice overall, which seems kind of sad to me for a token that is six years out of print.

But then what do I know about it? I'm just a sweet summer child of 2014. :)
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #40

Hawk Fingle wrote: I do have Eldritch Runestones and UR Specials, though, and neither of these effects would get me to spend the tokens for them.

UR Specials are consistently going for $140-$200, and using the equivalent of two or three runs to unlock a subtype for one run that adds a Dex bonus, 4 points of healing to someone else, and prevent a specific effect that may or may not happen just doesn't seem worth it to me. One-time bonus subtypes haven't been and likely will never be cool enough to merit spending the value of the token. However, if they are permanently given to the player to use whenever they want, then you're talking. Collectible subtypes of which only one can be selected by its owner in the coaching room prior to playing would make them far more interesting to me. As a one-time-only bonus, well, they really aren't worth it.

Eldritch Runestone effects have always been pretty meh for me, but then I only do dungeon runs and not grinds. The grind effects have all been better than the adventure effects with the exception of equipping an extra ioun stone. If both grind and adventure effects were included no matter what you're playing, then that would be more likely to get me to pony up my runestone. As it is now, usually the rare runestones and even the uncommons in each year's set have been a better choice overall, which seems kind of sad to me for a token that is six years out of print.


I think part of why UR Specials go for so much is that there are simply not that many out there, not that they are highly sought after. I suspect I'm not the only token buyer that mostly avoids buying (or transmuting) high-rarity consumables (though I do make exceptions for healing items like the Mystic Mushroom). I just really don't like seeing that much value disappear that quickly when I hand it over (personal opinion). As you mentioned, that is the cost of multiple runs.

As to the proposed effects for this year:

Eldritch Runestone, same level of power as last season, just Fire instead of Cold. Not a huge fan, as it feels targeted to just one of the three runs. I'd suggest thinking of something that could be useful on all three runs.

AoW, I'll probably use it, but it likely depends on what class I'm playing. Either way, I'd prefer this power to be saved for two years from now, when all classes with Legendary neck tokens can benefit.

UR Special feels a little weak, but not by a lot. Suggest adding something minor like "Immune to Lost One effect" or similar level of power.
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #41

Hawk Fingle wrote:

Druegar wrote: This is what we're thinking about doing for the variable effect tokens this season:

Eldritch Runestone
Fire damage inflicted upon the user is reduced by 5 points per attack

Amulet of Wonder
Sacrifice two charm slots, but gain +2 neck slots (i.e., -2 charms, +2 necks--this is in addition to the one neck slot taken up by the Amulet of Wonder)

UR Special
Character gains the “Angelic” sub-type with the following benefits:

  • +4 to Dexterity (+2 To Hit with ranged attacks, +2 to AC, and +2 to Reflex saving throws)
  • Heal Other: Once per game, you may heal 4 HP on another character (no bonuses can be applied to this heal; you may not target yourself)
  • Immune to possession


Amulet of Wonder effect is bae, even though I don't have one.

I do have Eldritch Runestones and UR Specials, though, and neither of these effects would get me to spend the tokens for them.

UR Specials are consistently going for $140-$200, and using the equivalent of two or three runs to unlock a subtype for one run that adds a Dex bonus, 4 points of healing to someone else, and prevent a specific effect that may or may not happen just doesn't seem worth it to me. One-time bonus subtypes haven't been and likely will never be cool enough to merit spending the value of the token. However, if they are permanently given to the player to use whenever they want, then you're talking. Collectible subtypes of which only one can be selected by its owner in the coaching room prior to playing would make them far more interesting to me. As a one-time-only bonus, well, they really aren't worth it.

Eldritch Runestone effects have always been pretty meh for me, but then I only do dungeon runs and not grinds. The grind effects have all been better than the adventure effects with the exception of equipping an extra ioun stone. If both grind and adventure effects were included no matter what you're playing, then that would be more likely to get me to pony up my runestone. As it is now, usually the rare runestones and even the uncommons in each year's set have been a better choice overall, which seems kind of sad to me for a token that is six years out of print.

But then what do I know about it? I'm just a sweet summer child of 2014. :)


I'm in Hawks camp here. Dont think I'd burn a runestone or special. What would be near for the Special is if there was always a chance at something extra, maybe via a dice roll in the coaching room. So in addition to the standard powers, roll a d20. Maybe 17-18 gets you a few extra treasure draws. 19 gets you extra treasure draws plus extra to hit or damage, or spell damage or something like that, 20 gets you the draws, the abilities plus a random UR.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #42

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So just to brainstorm a bit in terms of getting people to spend eldritch rune stones and UR specials. What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con. Would you be more likely to spend one? If you were a collector would you want to spend one just to get the sub race card?
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #43

Picc wrote: So just to brainstorm a bit in terms of getting people to spend eldritch rune stones and UR specials. What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con. Would you be more likely to spend one? If you were a collector would you want to spend one just to get the sub race card?


OK By no means an exhaustive search but, I found one Eldritch Runestone for sale for $30 (discount-dungeon) and I coach nearly every con full time. In my mind that's slightly less than some Charms of Transmorph were(are) and I have seen several of those redeemed. I've never seem one redeemed. It's just that the Eldritch Runestones are older and less readily available. Maybe people are just waiting around for the right opportunity.

I do like your suggestion

Picc wrote: What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con.

That might be too powerful but I'd probably see some turned in at that point.
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #44

Bob Chasan wrote:

Picc wrote: So just to brainstorm a bit in terms of getting people to spend eldritch rune stones and UR specials. What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con. Would you be more likely to spend one? If you were a collector would you want to spend one just to get the sub race card?


OK By no means an exhaustive search but, I found one Eldritch Runestone for sale for $30 (discount-dungeon) and I coach nearly every con full time. In my mind that's slightly less than some Charms of Transmorph were(are) and I have seen several of those redeemed. I've never seem one redeemed. It's just that the Eldritch Runestones are older and less readily available. Maybe people are just waiting around for the right opportunity.

I do like your suggestion

Picc wrote: What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con.

That might be too powerful but I'd probably see some turned in at that point.


For what it’s worth, I have a few ?Specials and Eldritch Runestones, and I’m pretty sure there’s nothing that would induce me to burn them, no matter how overpowered they were. I don’t even like using regular Runestones

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe" - Magritte
Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #45

Picc wrote: So just to brainstorm a bit in terms of getting people to spend eldritch rune stones and UR specials. What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con. Would you be more likely to spend one? If you were a collector would you want to spend one just to get the sub race card?


I'd rather it last for as long as I have the business card. Show one in coaching, adjust the party card accordingly, and be on your way. There are plastic cards out there now that are pretty durable and could last from year to year. Downside is I could see someone counterfeiting the cards. Maybe numbered? Limited run while they last? *shrug* Heck, maybe they could be actual tokens with the bonuses on them or a QR code that lets you pull up the stats. Point being, give me something that lasts beyond the con and is an option I can choose to use or not.

The best exchanges have been when you turned in a Special for a UR token or better. If TPTB don't want to do that, then offering collectible subtypes that can be used year after year would be acceptable in my mind.

Going that route, I'd recommend reprinting the Special every three years or so to help keep them down in price while allowing new players the opportunity to unlock something cool for their character. Of course, if they're on a token then that could be a cool route to go and let the Specials be flat exchangeable for them when they're available.
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #46

Hawk Fingle wrote:

Picc wrote: So just to brainstorm a bit in terms of getting people to spend eldritch rune stones and UR specials. What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con. Would you be more likely to spend one? If you were a collector would you want to spend one just to get the sub race card?


I'd rather it last for as long as I have the business card. Show one in coaching, adjust the party card accordingly, and be on your way. There are plastic cards out there now that are pretty durable and could last from year to year. Downside is I could see someone counterfeiting the cards. Maybe numbered? Limited run while they last? *shrug* Heck, maybe they could be actual tokens with the bonuses on them or a QR code that lets you pull up the stats. Point being, give me something that lasts beyond the con and is an option I can choose to use or not.

The best exchanges have been when you turned in a Special for a UR token or better. If TPTB don't want to do that, then offering collectible subtypes that can be used year after year would be acceptable in my mind.

Going that route, I'd recommend reprinting the Special every three years or so to help keep them down in price while allowing new players the opportunity to unlock something cool for their character. Of course, if they're on a token then that could be a cool route to go and let the Specials be flat exchangeable for them when they're available.


Unlimited usage in perpetuity is TOO OVERPOWERED. Not even RoSP is unlimited usage.
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #47

7 weeks and 1 day until Origins runs.
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Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020 4 years 11 months ago #48

Bob Chasan wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote:

Picc wrote: So just to brainstorm a bit in terms of getting people to spend eldritch rune stones and UR specials. What if TD gave you a business card with a cool graphic that described your new racial sub-type bonus and lasted the entire con. Would you be more likely to spend one? If you were a collector would you want to spend one just to get the sub race card?


I'd rather it last for as long as I have the business card. Show one in coaching, adjust the party card accordingly, and be on your way. There are plastic cards out there now that are pretty durable and could last from year to year. Downside is I could see someone counterfeiting the cards. Maybe numbered? Limited run while they last? *shrug* Heck, maybe they could be actual tokens with the bonuses on them or a QR code that lets you pull up the stats. Point being, give me something that lasts beyond the con and is an option I can choose to use or not.

The best exchanges have been when you turned in a Special for a UR token or better. If TPTB don't want to do that, then offering collectible subtypes that can be used year after year would be acceptable in my mind.

Going that route, I'd recommend reprinting the Special every three years or so to help keep them down in price while allowing new players the opportunity to unlock something cool for their character. Of course, if they're on a token then that could be a cool route to go and let the Specials be flat exchangeable for them when they're available.


Unlimited usage in perpetuity is TOO OVERPOWERED. Not even RoSP is unlimited usage.


In light of all the tokens that are unlimited usage in perpetuity, I completely disagree.

And I would suggest that RoSP should be useable more than once per year, but the fact that the RoSP confers bonuses in and of itself beyond the alternate classes plus combos with other tokens to unlock other permanent bonuses with unlimited usage in perpetuity makes that particular pill easier to swallow.

Also, you don't surrender the RoSP to play the alternate class.

Subtypes have been weak one-time-only effects that aren't worth turning in a potentially $200 token for. Give me those weak effects as a permanent collectible choice I can invoke before an adventure and you have something there.
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