TOPIC: Proposed Variable Effects for 2019-2020

Druegar wrote: This is what we're thinking about doing for the variable effect tokens this season:

Amulet of Wonder
Sacrifice two charm slots, but gain +2 neck slots (i.e., -2 charms, +2 necks--this is in addition to the one neck slot taken up by the Amulet of Wonder)

Ouch! Absolutely not a fan of this. It requires adding 2 new slots on a temporary basis and creating a mechanic for limiting charms when there are 2 different charm enhancers on top of the basic charms. Where do I limit these 2? There is no clear cut way to do that. At least when it was the empty slots give you something, it was a simple count. Since the slot adjustments all affect party card, I can't simply ignore and let it be taken care of on site. This is the type of item that can give character generator writers nightmares. Please reconsider!

Amorgen Burke wrote:

Druegar wrote: This is what we're thinking about doing for the variable effect tokens this season:

Amulet of Wonder
Sacrifice two charm slots, but gain +2 neck slots (i.e., -2 charms, +2 necks--this is in addition to the one neck slot taken up by the Amulet of Wonder)

Ouch! Absolutely not a fan of this. It requires adding 2 new slots on a temporary basis and creating a mechanic for limiting charms when there are 2 different charm enhancers on top of the basic charms. Where do I limit these 2? There is no clear cut way to do that. At least when it was the empty slots give you something, it was a simple count. Since the slot adjustments all affect party card, I can't simply ignore and let it be taken care of on site. This is the type of item that can give character generator writers nightmares. Please reconsider!

I should really just let this die since i would prefer a different ability, but now its a puzzle to solve...

What if it let you equip up to 2 amulets INSTEAD of charms? And could the character builders just allow players to put neck items in 2 of the charm slots? No new slots needed, and the charms are automatically limited since they are filled by neck items instead.

As a software developer I have complete sympathy for the app developers. But as a player I love things like the proposed Amulet of Wonder effects because it will mix things up.

Why not just accept that for a limited-time effect the apps don't need to support the Amulet of Wonder. Players can build their build and then show the coach the additional neck slot choices. I think with the time saved by having a pre-built character, the coach can make a few tweaks to the numbers before recording them. Yes I'm speaking as somebody who has been a coach a few times (mostly for Grind, where yes people make last-minute changes all the time, for example for things that happen during the Golden Ticket runs).

The number of players who will equip an Amulet of Wonder isn't going to be all that high.

kurtreznor wrote:

Amorgen Burke wrote:

Druegar wrote: This is what we're thinking about doing for the variable effect tokens this season:

Amulet of Wonder
Sacrifice two charm slots, but gain +2 neck slots (i.e., -2 charms, +2 necks--this is in addition to the one neck slot taken up by the Amulet of Wonder)

Ouch! Absolutely not a fan of this. It requires adding 2 new slots on a temporary basis and creating a mechanic for limiting charms when there are 2 different charm enhancers on top of the basic charms. Where do I limit these 2? There is no clear cut way to do that. At least when it was the empty slots give you something, it was a simple count. Since the slot adjustments all affect party card, I can't simply ignore and let it be taken care of on site. This is the type of item that can give character generator writers nightmares. Please reconsider!

I should really just let this die since i would prefer a different ability, but now its a puzzle to solve...

What if it let you equip up to 2 amulets INSTEAD of charms? And could the character builders just allow players to put neck items in 2 of the charm slots? No new slots needed, and the charms are automatically limited since they are filled by neck items instead.

Possibly. I'd have to see what all that would break. We keep coming up with more ways to make charms complicated, so while I can put in code to redirect the charm slots 4 and 5 to use the neck drop down list, I'd have to play around with it a bit to make sure it doesn't break 5 other things.

Amorgen Burke wrote: . It requires adding 2 new slots on a temporary basis and creating a mechanic for limiting charms when there are 2 different charm enhancers on top of the basic charms. Where do I limit these 2? There is no clear cut way to do that.

Why can't you do this:

Charm 1: Always on
Charm 2: On unless 2019 and AoW
Charm 3: On unless 2019 and AoW
Charm 4: Off unless Charm Necklace
Charm 5: Off unless Charm Necklace
Charm 6: Off unless Charm Necklace
Charm 7: Off unless Charm Bracelet
Charm 8: Off unless Charm Bracelet

It seems like you already do pretty much exactly this with slots 4-8 today?

Kirk Bauer wrote: As a software developer I have complete sympathy for the app developers. But as a player I love things like the proposed Amulet of Wonder effects because it will mix things up.

Why not just accept that for a limited-time effect the apps don't need to support the Amulet of Wonder. Players can build their build and then show the coach the additional neck slot choices. I think with the time saved by having a pre-built character, the coach can make a few tweaks to the numbers before recording them. Yes I'm speaking as somebody who has been a coach a few times (mostly for Grind, where yes people make last-minute changes all the time, for example for things that happen during the Golden Ticket runs).

The number of players who will equip an Amulet of Wonder isn't going to be all that high.

The suggestion of making the coach play with the numbers for it makes me cringe as a coach in that some of these groups the pre-printed sheets are the thing that makes it possible to record all of the various token nuances in a timely manner.

Note: I almost always figure something out, but I try not to hardcode more than I have to because it tends to break other things and makes it easier to miss something when we move on to the next group of tokens. If the proposed AOW is that popular, I'm sure I'll come up with something.

Mike Steele wrote:

Fred K wrote: I’m not a big fan of the AoW idea. The other two are fine.

What about something more thematic the season - the Amulet gives you infernal traits like being bathed in flame (retribution dmg) and additional melee damage? Alternately a more subtle take like gaining the ability to possess one NPC per run (w saving throw).

Fred

What about giving the AoW an ability like that, as well as the ability to be outfitted in either the neck slot or an alternate slot (like Charm)?

Because of the ability to use a charming necklace as one of the neck slots, it becomes an overly complicated +1 charm slot. Perhaps with the exclusion of other slot enhancers, it could work.

Second oddity to this, it looks like you could use it in the golden ticket slot (or were slot enhancers universally banned from it?) if so, you end up with another complex situation for a year.

Fred

Fred K wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Fred K wrote: I’m not a big fan of the AoW idea. The other two are fine.

What about something more thematic the season - the Amulet gives you infernal traits like being bathed in flame (retribution dmg) and additional melee damage? Alternately a more subtle take like gaining the ability to possess one NPC per run (w saving throw).

Fred

What about giving the AoW an ability like that, as well as the ability to be outfitted in either the neck slot or an alternate slot (like Charm)?

Because of the ability to use a charming necklace as one of the neck slots, it becomes an overly complicated +1 charm slot. Perhaps with the exclusion of other slot enhancers, it could work.

Second oddity to this, it looks like you could use it in the golden ticket slot (or were slot enhancers universally banned from it?) if so, you end up with another complex situation for a year.

Fred

Slot modifiers are not allowed with the Odin's Medallions, as were anything that effects the party card.

So you can't put AoW 2019 in the Odin's Medallion.

I think the effects are pretty cool.

I like the effects but I don’t have any of those tokens. Also I feel for the coders, as a coach I would hate to have to do all that in the coaching room.

I'm wondering if we should save that AoW effect until every class has their Neck slot legendary?