TOPIC: DM question (spoiler)

Joshua Long wrote: I totally forgot my old scrolls of knock at home. But I was hoping to try to knock open the cell and thus skip the two rounds required to spend not in combat. Would that have worked?

Kirk Bauer wrote: I was the DM and I love creative solutions. Normally I am a True Grind DM and pretty much am allowed unlimited flexibility in situations like this if it were to happen in True Grind. But in the dungeon we are asked to "stick to the script" as closely as possible, for better or worse. Obviously the goal is consistency.

In your case I was tempted to allow it, but also had to consider the "spirit" of the room.

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

The module states that the prisoner will quickly become hysterical within about 15 seconds if the party isn't making steps to free her. In this case some of the party was working with the prisoner and the others were steaking up to the giants. Again, great strategy and I would have liked to allow it. However it seems a bit unlikely that you would be able to get a good attack in on the giants within the 15 seconds that the rest of the party had to start breaking the prisoner free, which of course wakes up the giants, but does give the party the initiative

There were three or four parties that came up with a creative solution that I did allow, and I let the AC (also Steve!) know about:

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

The chain was frozen and had to be broken which both takes two rounds and causes noise. A few parties thought to use a fire spell to melt the ice and then allow the rogue to quietly pick the lock. I am not a D&D expert believe it or not so I'm not sure if a fire spell can be quiet, but I did allow a few parties to (1) melt the ice and (2) pick the lock without waking the giants. The escaped prisoner then forgot herself and screamed with joy, awaking the giants. But the party got initiative and didn't have to have somebody spend two rounds to free the prisoner.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Joshua Long wrote: I totally forgot my old scrolls of knock at home. But I was hoping to try to knock open the cell and thus skip the two rounds required to spend not in combat. Would that have worked?

I don't believe it was covered by the module. My only concern would be that the lock was frozen over with ice. So just unlocking it wouldn't allow the cage to be opened without dealing with the ice, IMO.

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Joshua Long wrote: I totally forgot my old scrolls of knock at home. But I was hoping to try to knock open the cell and thus skip the two rounds required to spend not in combat. Would that have worked?

I don't believe it was covered by the module. My only concern would be that the lock was frozen over with ice. So just unlocking it wouldn't allow the cage to be opened without dealing with the ice, IMO.

My thoughts is that knock scroll would open it at standard action speed, with no turn delay. Knock doesn’t care about magic locks, rusty locks, broken locks, super complicated locks, it just opens them for you instantly. If there is a trap imbedded it will set it off, but that’s not the debate.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

Joshua Long wrote: I totally forgot my old scrolls of knock at home. But I was hoping to try to knock open the cell and thus skip the two rounds required to spend not in combat. Would that have worked?

I don't believe it was covered by the module. My only concern would be that the lock was frozen over with ice. So just unlocking it wouldn't allow the cage to be opened without dealing with the ice, IMO.

My thoughts is that knock scroll would open it at standard action speed, with no turn delay. Knock doesn’t care about magic locks, rusty locks, broken locks, super complicated locks, it just opens them for you instantly. If there is a trap imbedded it will set it off, but that’s not the debate.

But would it do it soundlessly? Squeaking hinges and shattering ice could be considered a form of alarm, a sonic “trap” if you will, that would do zero damage but alert the sleepers.

I’m all for finding clever ways to gain an advantage in combat. Trying to break the room by claiming your party should start the combat with 10-12 crits for max damage, not so much.

Steven wrote: ... sneak over to the sleeping giants and place our tokens on the slider board on wear we wanted to hit him..,

Flik wrote: I remember someone actually telling me at Gencon that a previous N2 party used a knock scroll and just bypassed the room without a fight...so it definitely was already allowed!

jpotter wrote: I believe it was Grekel in one of our runs who tried to offer the Giants 1k to simply let us get by. It looked like Kirk was thinking about allowing it until our team just started swinging anyway.

Kirk Bauer wrote:

jpotter wrote: I believe it was Grekel in one of our runs who tried to offer the Giants 1k to simply let us get by. It looked like Kirk was thinking about allowing it until our team just started swinging anyway.

If your party had turned over 1K worth of GP for the token bucket I would have allowed you to buy off one of the giants. But the other one would still have fought you