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TOPIC: SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal

SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #1

I thought people might be curious as to how True Horde went, here are my notes from Friday's True Horde.


Obviously there is NOTHING BUT SPOILERS below - in case True Horde is presented at GenCon or elsewhere, read no further if you don't want to know...



True Horde Unofficial Spoilers

Thanks to Eric, Raven, Stu, Jeff, and everyone else who contributed to a great event!

This pertains to the Friday night Horde.

Initially a cultist in a black robe greeted us in front of a large combat board, held up by multiple tables. Behind the combat board was a black and red throne, with foot height at the top of the tables for the combat board. Behind that was a movie screen onto which an cloudscape scene was played. Ominous music played through a PA system.

The cultist explained that we had been drinking and celebrating, when things got a bit out of hand and we began smashing up stuff - we broke a certain decanter and a mist arose and we were teleported to the lair of the Jeffegorgon.

The Jeffegorgon, emerged: A tall and imposing figure cloaked in black robes, devil red face, and horns, holding a war hammer. Jeffegorgon ascended to the throne and combat began.

The combat board itself was large, perhaps 6 feet wide and 18 feet long. It was made of a rolled up vinyl like surface.

Initially we were not fighting the Jeffegorgon, but his two minions, who were represented by dinner plate size laminated monster print outs placed about half way up the combat board: maybe 6-9 feet from the base of the board.

The party was divided into 3 groups of 10. Each group was managed by its own combat DM, and played largely independently of the others (although rounds were synchronized).

Jeffegorgon had a microphone and his sharp tongue found targets.

Room 1:

Fighting the two minions, both were flying creatures. One focused on melee, and one on spells for their offense.

Whenever either attacked it effected all 30 people in both parties (not sure if you could avoid targeting with invisibility, cloak of blending, etc.)

Each dealt damage in the range of 30 points per hit. There were a variety of types of damage on the spell side, but I do not recall specifics.

Room 2:

Having defeated the minions, the rest of the combat board was revealed, featuring the enthroned Jeffegorgon, and a black strip across the board beneath the throne.

We attacked, only to be told that the Jeffegorgon was protected by a force field and our attacks were ineffective.

In the next round many people attacked the black strip representing the force field, but that also was ineffective.

3-4 rounds in with some experimentation and DM hints we determined that there were 4 circular targets on the Jeffegorgon's throne which were weak points, and we could only damage the Jeffegorgon after having scored a hit on each of them (this was an on the fly modification, the original ideas was that damage was dealt only if there was a puck on all 4 targets, but that proved to be too difficult for our team to achieve).

The Jeffegorgon attacked several times with various effects, see the appendix below.

Room 3:

Having disabled the shield, we began to attack the Jeffegorgon again, only to find that his war hammer was absorbing all the blows.

??I'm not certain if we needed to be hitting the war hammer on the combat board to deal damage, or if this was just thematic explanation - as the war hammer was a 19 so hits to it may have just been hits against a high AC??

The Jeffegorgon attacked several times with various effects, see the appendix below.

Room 4:

Having destroyed the Hammer, it was down to business. The Jeffegorgon's discarded hammer lay on the combat board, blocking some slots (although as it turned out I think it was actually a pretty effective backstop landing tokens on the Jeffegorgon's head which was an 18).

Jeffegorgon, in a maneuver you should not try at home, stood from his throne on the wobbly and precarious folding tables and continued to taunt us.

2-3 rounds later it was all over, the Jeffegorgon lying vanquished by the Horde (or, perhaps also by the benevolent forces of the GMs who may have made a few adjustments in our favor).

The Jeffegorgon attacked several times with various effects, see the appendix below.

Jeffegorgon attacks appendix:

(Here is what I remember)

Melee attack targeting all for 30

Missile attack of bladed treasure coins targeting all for 30, players were given the chance to grab the treasure coins (this was all a story description, there were no physical coins), those who did were turned into ducks! Duckification could be reversed by remove curse, such as Potion Moonveil or Censer of Sacrifice.

Acid Splash hitting all players for really, a lot, it might have been 30 unmodifiable?

Multiple breath / AOE style attacks that hit for ~30 with reflex save for half.

Darkstain attack, if save failed you had Darkstain and could not be healed (condition removable by remove curse).

Melee attack for 30 that also entailed a Reflex save, if save failed player was knocked prone and could either attack at -4 or spend a round standing up - "Free Movement" did not prevent this.

At one point the Jeffegorgon issued a directed attack at a Monk from team Raven who had critted Jeff in the 20 (which was his left eye - a spot the size of a quarter on the combat board).


Overall threat DCs and monster to-hit were very, very high. I spoke with Eric and he said he used Epic Grind as a baseline. I failed multiple saves with save modifiers of +20 or better. People with AC of ~40 were being hit frequently.

There was a very even mix of melee, missile, spell, and breath weapon/area of effect effects that offered a reflex save for half (of none for those wily 5th level monks and anyone else with improved evasion).

The combat combat board was long, but had a large 18 (head) two large 19s (hammer and empty hand), and the 20 was right in the middle of the 18, so not the worse combat board in terms of hitting high numbers.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #2

Did the bards help us figure out that we had to hit each of the four circles on the throne? On Saturday all three bards plus one druid with the bowl of spirit sight were needed to get the full information on the throne.

The Saturday group ended up doing more rounds of combat I think due to some streamlining and extra help for the DMs (4 DMs on Friday, 9 on Saturday).

By the end Jeff's attacks were doing 50 damage or 25 with a save, but the saves were around DC 45, so most players had to roll a 20.

Eventually there was an enhanced treasure attack. Anybody who missed the save (again for most they had to roll a 20) were automatically turned into ducks. Then in future rounds Jeff started stomping on ducks and killing them.

For anybody who played True Horde but hasn't played Grind I hope this has encouraged you to try it out. Note that especially for the Friday session, Grind goes faster and smoother with three tables and two DMs for only 10 players.
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Last edit: by Kirk Bauer.

SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #3

My only comment is that it was a monk from team eric, who had never played monk before, that was the one to be so targeted with the jeffagorgons ire.

He managed hit the 20 3 times during the event, and I suppose the jeffagorgon had had enough of that.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
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SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #4

It took 3 bards plus a druid to figure it out on Friday as well.

That cost our druid her life, as Binia couldn't heal the round she used the bowl.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #5

Saturday obviously went smoother than Friday, due to Friday being the first run.

- On Friday, everyone (DM's and players) forgot to emphasize how dead players could still slide empty pucks via Spiritward. On Saturday, players were reminded of this several times.

- On Saturday, I shared the microphone with Jeff (on Friday I was just trying to get everyone's attention with the unaided voice). That made it much easier to communicate things to all three parties.

- On Saturday we had extra volunteer helps. For Friday, there was me/Stu/Raven as DM's along with Kim for healing. On Saturday, we had me/Stu/Raven as DM's, Kirk & valetutto as assistant DM's, Kim/Ed/James? as healers. I think we also had a 9th helper as well.

- On Friday, I forgot to apply Jeffagorgon's retribution damage (to players attacking with melee) in his final version. There were also a few attack forms that he didn't use on Friday (though he did have access to them) that he did use on Saturday.

- For Friday, there were several things that I had to tone down to give the players a fighting chance. For all three versions of the Jeffagorgon, the original mechanic for hurting him was more complicated but I had to simplify it because the parties were just sliding so terribly! Also, the Jeffagorgon was essentially attacking only every other round because his attacks were just too brutal. I also shaved a few hundred HP's from several of his incarnations. I maintained those alterations for Saturday, so the Saturday version was on par with the Friday version.

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Last edit: by Incognito.

SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #6

I enjoyed the event although the amount of damage I was taking was a bit crazy. As a maxed out barbarian I still pretty much got hit by every attack. Damage reduction (Supreme Ring / Kvothe's / Shaed) helped though.

Also there were too many players. I think 20 would have been a better number.

Kirk Bauer wrote: 4 DMs on Friday, 9 on Saturday


That probably would have helped!

Overall though it was a cool and unique event and the combat mechanics were interesting. Having to take down the minions first, then the shield, and finally the hammer before getting to Jeff worked well.
Classes Played: Barbarian (21 times), Monk (11), Cleric (9), Fighter (9), Rogue (9), Dwarf Fighter (7), Ranger (6), Paladin (5), Druid (5), Elf Wizard (2), Wizard (2).

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Last edit: by Jeff321.

SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #7

I truly enjoyed the event overall, and was glad to play it.

I was the first to die, taking 90 in one round thanks to amulet of guarding

It would have been nice to have the empty pucks being slid, and would have made the dead players more engaged at the end.

I would play it at TDC next year (hint, hint) but would probably pass at GC or Origins.
Having never been to GHC, it is harder to say.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

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SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #8

Matthew Hayward wrote: ??I'm not certain if we needed to be hitting the war hammer on the combat board to deal damage, or if this was just thematic explanation - as the war hammer was a 19 so hits to it may have just been hits against a high AC??


Those secrets will be lost to time since your lazy Bards failed to do sufficient Lore!

Overall threat DCs and monster to-hit were very, very high. I spoke with Eric and he said he used Epic Grind as a baseline. I failed multiple saves with save modifiers of +20 or better. People with AC of ~40 were being hit frequently.

There was a very even mix of melee, missile, spell, and breath weapon/area of effect effects that offered a reflex save for half (of none for those wily 5th level monks and anyone else with improved evasion).


That is a consequence of token creep.

The Jeffagorgon needed to able to hit characters with 40+ AC and to have a chance to be able to hit characters with 50+ AC.

On Friday, AC's included:
Team Eric: 55 (the cheating Dwarf Fighter - I wonder if his AC is as bogus as his +hit), 40, 40
Team Raven: 44, 41
Team Stu: 43, 41

On Saturday:
Team Eric: 38, 38, 37
Team Raven: 42
Team Stu: 40


In terms of DC, the Jeffagorgon needed to be able to affect players in the +25 to +30 range.

(In last year's True Grind at WYC, the main reason the players were victorious was because I erred on the side of being generous with the monster DC's! So I have since learned from that mistake!).


In the first two rooms, there were plenty of Reflex save attacks, so Evasion helped quite a bit there. However, in the final two rooms, the Jeffagorgon could cast damage spells that triggered off of Fortitude or Will saves, which bypassed Evasion (take that Monks!).

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SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #9

Kirk Bauer wrote: Did the bards help us figure out that we had to hit each of the four circles on the throne? On Saturday all three bards plus one druid with the bowl of spirit sight were needed to get the full information on the throne.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: It took 3 bards plus a druid to figure it out on Friday as well.

That cost our druid her life, as Binia couldn't heal the round she used the bowl.



For each of the three versions of the Jeffagorgon, you could use Lore to gain insights on how to damage it.

However, Lore required the combined efforts of 4 different players. In addition to Bards and Druids (aren't you glad that that the Bowl of Spirit Sight was actually useful?), I had allowed for some other creative attempts but those scenarios never came up (and will remain a secret!).

For both Friday and Saturday, the groups did have 4 players use Lore on the Throne combat. However, none of the groups used Lore on the Warhammer combat of the final combat. (Could also be because some of those characters were dead by then).

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Last edit: by Incognito.

SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #10

The paladin in our party we figured out after the event personally took around 300 HP of damage (and probably resisted 75 more and shrugged off 4 attacks with Cloak of Shadowskin).

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SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #11

I would have to count, but with amulet of guarding and needing a revive, I would imagine I got to that level.

I used about 10 potions of distilled healing for 11, in addition to lots of healing from the cleric, and 2 phoenix figurines.

So much damage.
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 

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Last edit: by Wade Schwendemann.

SPOILERS - True Horde Unofficial Riddle Reveal 2 years 4 months ago #12

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I would have to count, but with amulet of guarding and needing a revive, I would imagine I got to that level.

I used about 10 potions of distilled healing for 11, in addition to lots of healing from the cleric, and 2 phoenix figurines.

So much damage.



I think what you mean is:

"Thank you, sir, may I have another?"

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