TOPIC: Newest Newletter 9/27/16

If this is intended for new players then perhaps "Max 4k XP per year" could be added as a restriction too. That would block any aforementioned XP shenanigans.

Also fine with the "below X level" condition.

Seems like a reasonable compromise!

Personally, I don't benefit from the new rule, but I think it was a good compromise. I was one of those who didn't see a need for a lot of advance notice. If the belief is that this will attract new players, why wait? Since it really only impacts those below level 5, then I doubt it has much impact on travel plans. Maybe for a few, but it's already been stated that a compromise ends up not totally satisfying anyone.

As for potential abuse, I think it's a minor point. If someone is going to manipulate the process to get to level 5 or 6 faster, how does that hurt anyone else? They don't really display a top ranking below the top 100 and right now you need way more than 10K points to get into the top 100, so there's no impact there. I just don't envision a mass number of people taking advantage of this, but if it means they are doing more runs and buying more tokens, that's a good thing.

I don't think a 4K per year cap is necessary at the lower levels. If there is one fine, but I just don't think it's a big deal.

Yeah, I'm not feeling this "compromise". Selfishly, but rationally speaking, I'm so close to 6th level...this XP might have got me there. While I disagree with this XP direction (as I'm not sure how that incentivizes new players announcing this a month out but I'm sure the rationale for it is legit).

I believe that you should get the XP regardless since players are spending lot of money just to play. I invested in a lot of tokens in a short amount of time and the travel to go to both cons. While disappointed in no XP I am still very thrilled that another TD event is in driving distance and happening in the same year (I just feel I earned that extra treasure coin I play Rouge so its par for the course!) After this con I will clock in at 8 runs in 16 so don't hold it against me wanting XP for GHC. I brought 3 noobs to GenCon SPECIFICALLY to play TD so I am recruiting new players. Word of mouth is the best sales tool.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Rob F wrote:
I still don't get what the "compromise" is????

If you can't make it to a Con then too bad, no XP for you. If you can make it and play then you should get XP. If I sat down with my old time RPG group and said only players below a certain level would get XP for playing a session because other people that can't make it are worried about not receiving any XP I'd probably have a fair amount of sharp objects thrown at me, a bit of WTF'ing, and then a walk out. I get that some people live time zones away, but so what. A person shouldn't be robbed from a participation reward just because another person can't participate.

Of course I'm sure this was all brought up before, some heated debates were had, and hence the outcome. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Unless I'm missing something.

What you are missing is that to some people their spot on the leaderboard is more *gollum* precious than the one ring *gollum*.

A subset of those people have the strong belief that only Gen Con participation should count, or that you should be able to max out XP at one con a year (despite the fact that some top leaderboard people have Gen Con SoCal and True Realm XP - and even True Here's XP for crying out loud! )

Another subset of those people have the strong belief that redux/greatest hits dungeons shouldn't count (despite the fact that some people at the top of the leaderboard have redux/greatest hits dungeons in their XP).

Taking a cross section of those opinions, you'll find some folks that think GHC should not offer XP at all. Some XP is being offered, so they are not getting all they want.

Hence compromise.

For the record, I think you should get full XP for a standard length dungeon at any presentation of True Dungeon.

I'm ambivalent about whether or not there should be an annual XP cap:

• Certainly it would be nice for the folks who care about the leaderboard and are high on it to not have to "grind" con attendance to stay there
• Certainly it would be nice for the folks who care about the leaderboard and are not high on it to have the chance to catch up by playing more
• Certainly it would be nice for people trying to obtain player rewards to get them faster if they attend more true dungeon

Hmmm....so what you are saying is something to this effect....:

Lester (GM): "Alright everyone!! Glad you could all make it out tonight! I know the venue has changed from our last session but all in all this isn’t a bad location, let’s see how this new one works out for us."

Tim: "Can’t wait to see what you’ve got cooked up for us, looking forward to the adventure!!"

Gary: "Yea, it’s been a few months and I’ve been itching to play. I know my Rogue’s a few levels behind the others but with the gear I acquired from the last outing I think I can hold my own."

Mike: "Awwwwwwwwwwwww SNAAPPPP I’m gonna bring the Hammer down hard tonight!!! Going to open up an old school can of whoop a-s on any beasts in my way. Seriously, I love my new Hammer, still can’t believe I pried it from the old man’s hand before that Troll dragged him off. Hey, where’s Donald?"

Gary: "And where’s Hillary?"

Lester (GM): "Well, Hillary was too busy to make it and Donald said he couldn’t afford money for gas, something about having to cut back."

Mike: "That’s strange, Donald's my main man and he's always flashing those hundo’s?!"

Lester (GM): "Oh, and there’s one other thing. Only Gary will be able to receive XP tonight, you (Mike) and Tim won’t get any."

Mike: "Huh?"

Tim: "???"

Lester (GM): "Well, both Donald and Hillary got a bit upset at the thought of you guys encroaching on their XP level. But….since Gary just joined our group and he’s relatively new they thought it would be alright if he got some."

Mike: "WTF? Seriously? That’s bull_hit. Their XP level should have absolutely nothing to do with me receiving XP for an adventure I’m doing. I’m hear and ready to play, not my fault they can’t make it."

Tim: "Wait, we are actually going to play and NOT get any XP because Donald and Hillary don’t want us to pass them up? That’s what those two are worried about??"

Lester (GM): "Well, this is a new location and it sounds like they’ve got busy schedules or a lack of cash for travel. Look on the bright side, Gary is still getting some."

Mike: "This is crazy. Screw this."

Gary: "I don’t care if Mike and Tim get XP, I just want to play. Go ahead and let them get XP."

Mike: "Bet it was Hillary’s idea."

Tim: "I’m sure it was Donald’s."

Gary: "(pulls out a joint). Why don’t we all just take a few puffs on this bad boy and I’m sure we can all figure this out by ourselves…."


Or maybe I've got it all wrong because my head still hurts from that circus last night on TV. In any case I agree with you. I think you should get full XP for a standard length dungeon at any presentation of True Dungeon, however from the looks of it this ships already sailed so....back to perusing your store front. I've got a few items I'll be sending you a PM about.

Michael DiBartolo wrote: Yeah, I'm not feeling this "compromise". Selfishly, but rationally speaking, I'm so close to 6th level...this XP might have got me there. While I disagree with this XP direction (as I'm not sure how that incentivizes new players announcing this a month out but I'm sure the rationale for it is legit).

I believe that you should get the XP regardless since players are spending lot of money just to play. I invested in a lot of tokens in a short amount of time and the travel to go to both cons. While disappointed in no XP I am still very thrilled that another TD event is in driving distance and happening in the same year (I just feel I earned that extra treasure coin I play Rouge so its par for the course!) After this con I will clock in at 8 runs in 16 so don't hold it against me wanting XP for GHC. I brought 3 noobs to GenCon SPECIFICALLY to play TD so I am recruiting new players. Word of mouth is the best sales tool.

Well, I'm just 150 XP away from 9th level....

I'm okay with this.

My first preference is no XP for this year's GHC and then we could implement some sort of system for next year's WYC *and* GHC.

My second preference is for new XP for each of these cons. (So you could get 4000 XP at WYC, 4000 XP at GenCon, and 4000 XP at GHC).

My third preference is for no XP at WYC and GHC.

I am fine with this solution. Previously I did cite how TD Mini-Quest only provided XP for low level players.

However, my main issue is that the current implementation means that some players (those that just barely made 5th level) actually will get leapfrogged by those with less XP.

Incognito wrote:
Well, I'm just 150 XP away from 9th level....

I'm okay with this.

My first preference is no XP for this year's GHC and then we could implement some sort of system for next year's WYC *and* GHC.

My second preference is for new XP for each of these cons. (So you could get 4000 XP at WYC, 4000 XP at GenCon, and 4000 XP at GHC).

My third preference is for no XP at WYC and GHC.

I am fine with this solution. Previously I did cite how TD Mini-Quest only provided XP for low level players.

However, my main issue is that the current implementation means that some players (those that just barely made 5th level) actually will get leapfrogged by those with less XP.

This is all a moot point now as it's decided, so I just see this as friendly post debate of the topic, not an argument with you. I just want to make that clear with you before I give some push back.

I respect your opinions but I respectively disagree with them on several points, sans your first one if this GHC can be retroactive once decided . All of this "fairness" talk is complete bunk and the very premise of it I find truly nauseating. If you show up to play, spend the time and the money to get there to play you should get XP period. Besides getting more use of the tokens I invested in and the fun of playing, part of my incentive to go to GHC was more XP, not having it is a huge letdown and is a real disincentive to travel to smaller cons again. (TD is the only reason I'm going. I can care less about everything else at this con.)

Sorry to those of you who cannot make it to GHC but I do not hold anything against those of you that played in the years I could not. I do not hold anything against players who spent $8k+ that have the creme de la creme of tokens. They spent the real coin to get that advantage - more power to them, they earned it! I played since 2007 and I am missing XP from a few years back. Part of that is my fault and some was tech difficulties that were not addressed so I accept the missing XP.

I want to earn my 6th level status and get my extra treasure token, I want that when I enter Gen Con 17. These are new adventures and a different con, so it makes no logical sense to me not to have a level playing field for all who participate in it. Treat everyone equal and you get your 9th level status! I would not be jealous of that I want to get there myself!

You can tell it's a good compromise - some people can't stop complaining about it.

Michael DiBartolo wrote:

Incognito wrote:
Well, I'm just 150 XP away from 9th level....

I'm okay with this.

My first preference is no XP for this year's GHC and then we could implement some sort of system for next year's WYC *and* GHC.

My second preference is for new XP for each of these cons. (So you could get 4000 XP at WYC, 4000 XP at GenCon, and 4000 XP at GHC).

My third preference is for no XP at WYC and GHC.

I am fine with this solution. Previously I did cite how TD Mini-Quest only provided XP for low level players.

However, my main issue is that the current implementation means that some players (those that just barely made 5th level) actually will get leapfrogged by those with less XP.

This is all a moot point now as it's decided, so I just see this as friendly post debate of the topic, not an argument with you. I just want to make that clear with you before I give some push back.

I respect your opinions but I respectively disagree with them on several points, sans your first one if this GHC can be retroactive once decided . All of this "fairness" talk is complete bunk and the very premise of it I find truly nauseating. If you show up to play, spend the time and the money to get there to play you should get XP period. Besides getting more use of the tokens I invested in and the fun of playing, part of my incentive to go to GHC was more XP, not having it is a huge letdown and is a real disincentive to travel to smaller cons again. (TD is the only reason I'm going. I can care less about everything else at this con.)

Sorry to those of you who cannot make it to GHC but I do not hold anything against those of you that played in the years I could not. I do not hold anything against players who spent $8k+ that have the creme de la creme of tokens. They spent the real coin to get that advantage - more power to them, they earned it! I played since 2007 and I am missing XP from a few years back. Part of that is my fault and some was tech difficulties that were not addressed so I accept the missing XP.

I want to earn my 6th level status and get my extra treasure token, I want that when I enter Gen Con 17. These are new adventures and a different con, so it makes no logical sense to me not to have a level playing field for all who participate in it. Treat everyone equal and you get your 9th level status! I would not be jealous of that I want to get there myself!

Keep in mind that we have had two years of dungeons at WYC with zero XP. Players at GHC are getting something other players didn't have a chance to earn. I am okay with the XP for sub-level 5 players, as long as the system cannot be gamed like some people have suggested. I would also be okay with a policy that opens up XP to all cons, but limits players to the current 4k max.

It is good that new players will earn XP and Gameholecon, it would be better if every paying customer did.